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Thousands of Iraqi Kurds march against Turkey
alertnet.org ^
| 03 Mar 2003 10:28
| Sebastian Alison
Posted on 03/03/2003 8:14:19 AM PST by Destro
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1
posted on
03/03/2003 8:14:19 AM PST
by
Destro
To: Destro
To shoot down the other reason for Turkey's intervention:
Why is it conventional wisdom that there will be a "flood of refugees" to Turkey from Iraq? There won't be time for that. The war will be over so fast that all Iraqis -- including Kurds, Turkomen, Shiites -- will be very happy thank you to stay right where they are in order to partake in the MASSIVE CELEBRATION at the liberation their homeland.
So all of Turkey's reasons for intervention it seems, ARE LIES. Why then, do they want to intervene? It's spelled O-I-L.
2
posted on
03/03/2003 8:34:32 AM PST
by
EarlyBird
To: EarlyBird
I'm not sure it's that simple. If they are freed from Saddam, it would be an excellent opportunity for the Kurds in the region, including inside Turkey, to work for an independent or autonomous state. Think 50 years ahead (after Hispanics have overwhelmed TX, NM, AZ, and Southern CA) and what our reaction will be to the calls for autonomy there.
The US has provided the planet with most of the very few examples where a protectorate (or even fully-owned territory) is given up freely without a fight... and in the Middle East, it's almost considered unconscionable to do so without bloodshed.
To: Teacher317; EarlyBird
Since we fought a Balkan's war to break up ethnic majority or plurality states away form another country (Kosovo out of Yugoslavia) who are we to say it is wrong now?
Just to be on the safe side, teach your grandkids Spanish.
4
posted on
03/03/2003 8:48:57 AM PST
by
Destro
(Fight Islamic terrorisim by visiting www.johnathangaltfilms.com)
To: Destro
5
posted on
03/03/2003 8:49:33 AM PST
by
a_Turk
To: a_Turk
I agree with your post on the State Dept.'s diplomatic fiasco as my posts have indicated. Turkey had every rightto say NO and has no rights inside Iraq. The safety zone-the Turkoman excuse are lies and a grab.
6
posted on
03/03/2003 8:57:34 AM PST
by
Destro
(Fight Islamic terrorisim by visiting www.johnathangaltfilms.com)
To: Teacher317
To tell you the truth, It wouldn't bother me at all to see NM, AZ, and CA to form a hispanic country - would serve those liberal idiots right - and the US would be able to cut income taxes in half - because we wouldn't have to support them and their socialist programs. (Now TX on the other hand - I'd fight for)
7
posted on
03/03/2003 8:57:48 AM PST
by
Core_Conservative
(Prayer for those who Serve our Country - I also pray for our President for the Wisdom of Solomon)
To: Teacher317
People need to listen to Bush. I know it's a completely new concept that an American President means what he says, but woe unto them who don't believe him.
In his speech on Wednesday and in the Saturday radio address, Bush was adamant when he said that he would preserve the territorial integrity of Iraq. This was a message to both the Turks and the Kurds.
Watch the speech again, and note the body-language emphasis he placed on this statement.
8
posted on
03/03/2003 8:59:00 AM PST
by
EarlyBird
To: Destro
Since we fought a Balkan's war to break up ethnic majority or plurality states away form another country (Kosovo out of Yugoslavia) who are we to say it is wrong now? Most here would reply, "because it was wrong to do so there, and Clinton was a [long stream of expletives deleted] for ordering it."
I'm not well-versed enough in the history of the region in general, or in our conflict there in particular, but it doesn't seem like we should be in the business of redrawing the maps for others. I'm all for ousting mass murderers, and preventing equally horrible replacements, but let the survivors make their own way into the future... even if it means they have to shed blood over the issue.
Can you imagine what our history would have been if a coalition force had defeated King George in 1775, and then told us what our new nation would or would not become... and then prevented us from fighting it out with the newly-placed authoritarians?
To: Destro
I've had a seriously bad feeling ever since Turkey started raising the number of troops it planned to send into Northern Iraq...allegedly to protect the Turkish borders, and now to allegedly protect the Turkomen.
It'll take longer to topple Saddam's regime without being able to stage large from Turkey, but the Iraqi Kurds'll be safer. Less chance of the military misunderstanding that I've been dreading between Iraqi Kurds and Turkish troops exploding into a seperate war.
10
posted on
03/03/2003 8:59:50 AM PST
by
cake_crumb
(UN Resolutions = VERY expensive, very SCRATCHY toilet paper.)
To: EarlyBird
Since the Turkish Parliament has divested itself of this war, we can now go in without owing them any more than our defense obligations with NATO (which will be done by default anyway.) We should then thank them, and tell them that we will instead launch the northern assault from KURDISTAN!!!!
To: EarlyBird
The "territorial integrity of Iraq" can mean many things to many people... which is likely the reason he used that phrasing.
To: *war_list
To: a_Turk
Vague buck passing and blame gaming. State looks no more to blame than the Turkish parlaiment.
14
posted on
03/03/2003 9:31:01 AM PST
by
cake_crumb
(UN Resolutions = VERY expensive, very SCRATCHY toilet paper.)
To: EarlyBird
When we attack from the South, what are the changes that Turkey invades from the north without US troop interference and simply takes northern Iraq by conquest? Would we use force to eject the? The Turks will then control the northern oil centers and not as likely to be interested in our foreign aid.
15
posted on
03/03/2003 9:50:32 AM PST
by
Truth29
To: CurlyBill
I share your sentiments. The Turks want to try to pull a Francois on us? Screw em. They should lose their chance for any say in the new 'Iraq'. Of course as their stock market tanks they may reconsider but why even bother giving them another chance? I hope Bush is considering this carefully. De-lineation of Kurdistan should definitely be on the table.
16
posted on
03/03/2003 9:52:00 AM PST
by
pachanga
To: CurlyBill
Exactly. I'm relieved that they refused us. If we get Turkey involved in any way the ancient feud with the Kurds will just become another mess for us to clean up. This way we can tell Turkey to stay out of Iraq.
17
posted on
03/03/2003 10:16:00 AM PST
by
WVNan
To: WVNan
"I'm relieved that they refused us."The reaction of their stock market may make them change their minds. The first vote was extremely close. Another one would probably pass as the businessmen give the politicians their two cents.
18
posted on
03/03/2003 10:21:15 AM PST
by
cake_crumb
(UN Resolutions = VERY expensive, very SCRATCHY toilet paper.)
To: pachanga; a_Turk; Beck_isright
The Turks want to try to pull a Francois on us? Screw emIt ostensibly appears that Turkey is "pull[ing] a Francois on us." However, you may wish to read a thread (including the in-depth comments--not too many--only 62) posted to glean a a broader perspective of the benefits/consequences of jumping too quickly to a conclusion about Turkey's alliance with us--as well as the background of the Kurds, and what other possible agenda their leaders may have. We've been deluged with information that compels us to feel a genuinely deserved compassion for what the Kurds suffered under Saddam. But, without ignoring their suffering, we also perhaps need to take a very close look at the agenda of the Kurdish leaders (and their not-so-distant previous alliances), and ask if, in the long-run, it will be in reality a remarkable improvement in the lives of Iraqi citizens. I'm still learning (and hope always to be so), and perhaps most particularly how critical it is to ensure that we have a firm grasp on both sides of a story (especially if we're looking at only a couple of media articles).
By the way, is anyone else perplexed about how our administration can casually toss $15B of US money to African nations to combat their AIDS epidemic, and simultaneously balk at the Turks' request for the same amount--to subsidize their direct contribution to aiding America in the war on terrorism (specifically in ousting Saddam), while their own economy is in the straits? Have I missed the part where there was an African nation offering up similar assistance--or any demonstration of good-will towards the USA?
Hey, a_Turk and Beck, just letting you know that your time and effort was not all in vain ;-)
19
posted on
03/03/2003 11:10:53 AM PST
by
DontMessWithMyCountry
(It's serious business being an American in America these days.)
To: cake_crumb
The reaction of their stock market may make them change their minds. The first vote was extremely close. Another one would probably pass as the businessmen give the politicians their two cents.Even if they do pass the measure this go around, we should tell them that they had their chance and we're no longer interested. I don't think we should "owe" anyone anything.
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