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To: x
Secular humanism and capitalism are not mutually exclusive. Indeed, the latter is really needed to effect the ends of the former. It is an apples and oranges thingie. Mixing in nationalism and a Pavlovian hostility to international organizations merely leads one farther astray. This is one of those grand unified theories that lays an egg.
20 posted on 03/02/2003 2:00:54 PM PST by Torie
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To: Torie
Secular humanism and capitalism are not mutually exclusive.

Of course not, one is a political view and the other an economic system.

This "unified world theory" is not political or economic, but religious, consisting of the three elements listed, Islam, Judeo-Christianity, and Atheism.

24 posted on 03/02/2003 2:08:41 PM PST by ez ("Stable and free nations do not breed ... ideologies of murder."- GWB)
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To: Torie
Secular humanism and capitalism are not mutually exclusive. Indeed, the latter is really needed to effect the ends of the former. It is an apples and oranges thingie. Mixing in nationalism and a Pavlovian hostility to international organizations merely leads one farther astray. This is one of those grand unified theories that lays an egg.

For mixed metaphors, this is a good one.

52 posted on 03/02/2003 3:42:19 PM PST by xJones
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To: Torie
A lot depends on how you read "socialist". I read it as a party name, not a comprehensive system of state ownership. Europeans view their social democracy as the next stage in the development of capitalism, not a negation of it. And the victory of the welfare state in Europe is linked to the decline of Christianity. As religious faith declined so did the ethic of individual responsibility, and the demand for government provision increased.

So far the US has been a hold out, because of our strong religious faith. I suppose that we'll remain hold outs, but I don't know how exportable our system is. So, yes, the short answer is that secular capitalism is possible, but it will probably have more welfarist elements, and it's not "the American Way."

There's a possibility that the US will secularize without developing a bigger welfare state. Perhaps the great opportunities of financial success will keep citizens working hard, taxes low, and bureaucracy weak, even without transcendental moral sanctions, but I won't bet on it. Eventually it becomes too easy for the "have nots" to outvote the "haves" or for the "haves" to buy off the "have nots" by giving them what they want.

Another possibility is that global competition, mass immigration, or declining birthrates, will render European-style welfare states obsolete or unsustainable. Maybe they will collapse under their own weight. In that case, maybe the future will look American after all.

66 posted on 03/02/2003 6:11:36 PM PST by x
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To: Torie
BTTT
71 posted on 03/02/2003 10:07:57 PM PST by snowtigger
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