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To: laredo44
Just as the path that begins with 2+2=5 ends nowhere

Neither you nor OP will ever get this, will you? FACTS ARE NOT VALUES. REPEAT, FACTS ARE NOT VALUES.

To state otherwise means that you personally have solved the problem that has vexed moral philosophy for over 350 years. Ok? If you have, please go collect your award and your endowed chair at the Harvard Philosophy Department.

476 posted on 03/08/2003 9:28:00 AM PST by HumanaeVitae
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To: HumanaeVitae
Neither you nor OP will ever get this, will you? FACTS ARE NOT VALUES. REPEAT, FACTS ARE NOT VALUES.

State it all you want. Repeat it, type it in all caps. You continue to miss the point.

Facts are what, exactly? Values are what, exactly? Conclusions based on beliefs. Remove the belief, change the fact/value.

Why not take mathematics, probably the most unassailable bastion of fact. You must begin with a belief: there exists an additive identity, 0, such that a+0=a for all a. You must believe in the existence before the rest of mathematics can follow. Using the beliefs associated with real numbers, there are no imaginary numbers. In real number mathematics there is no square root of -1. But, include different beliefs, and you can get even roots of negative numbers.

Beginning with some beliefs, you don't even get 2+2=4. Perfectly legitimate, and useful mathematics. Now where are the facts?

478 posted on 03/10/2003 3:19:44 AM PST by laredo44
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