Basics of Flashover (Warwick fire related)

Self ^ | 2/22/2003 | Stephen Cook

[garandgal]

Thanks for the reply...I have been wondering about that. I am sure there are many photographs that have been taken of concerts during the time this club has been in operation. If the lawyers can show that the eggcrate foam was put up prior to the last maintenance inspection, I am afraid that the city may be in BIG trouble.

I am certainly not saying I agree with this, but they will go where the money is...and it's probably not the band or the club owners...it will be the city's insurance policy. I have a feeling that fire inspections will become a LOT more stringent around the country.....

[garandgal]

Fatima, I am so sorry for your losses. I thought you might be interested in this: I collect World War II "in service" banners. People used to hang them in their windows to show that they had a family member serving in the armed forces.

Since 9-11, they have been offering new ones for the members of the armed forces, but a new banner has been created to honor firefighters. Since you have a firefighter in your family, I thought you might be interested. Go to the website www.americanheroes.cc

There, you can order a banner to hang in your window to honor your husband's contribution to public safety.

[fatima]

Thank you garandgal.www.americanheroes.cc,I belong to the canteen right now because my 20 year old grandaughter has been deployed.

[WFTR]

These gases are already extremely hot, they are almost 100% surface area, and because they are the product of incomplete combustion, they are still extremely flammable.

I have only one tiny nit to pick, and I offer it only as a small technical point. Although I'm somewhat familiar with all of the information you've presented, I couldn't have explained it as clearly as you have. I've been to fire school twice and some internal trainings at work, but I've never fought a real fire. What I offer comes from various classes in thermo and fluids.

In order to have a "surface," you must have different phases (solid, liquid, or gas). A mixture of gases doesn't produce a surface, and therefore cannot have "surface area." However, the point that you were making is likely still valid. The rapidly rising gases from the heat probably produces a great deal of turbulence near the ceiling, and the turbulence results in good mixing. The well-mixed gases can burn more rapidly because the CO and other flammable molecules will be more able to interact with O2 molecules.

WFTR
Bill

[twyn1]

Thanks for the Ping -- you have explained this very well -- one question I did have was the graphic on another thread saying something about there being a (flooded) basement and maybe finding more victims down there, does anyone know if there are still people missing ?

[Tijeras_Slim]

Good post.

[monocle]

Fifteen or twenty years ago there was a similar fire in Westchester, NY in a meeting room being used for a midday luncheon. This fire caused many deaths and spread exceptionally rapidly. In the aftermath of this fire there were numerous articles which substantially corroborated your analyses.

[Jonx6]

Are you with WFD?

Also, does anyone have a link to the complete video shot that night?

[spunkets]

"A mixture of gases doesn't produce a surface"

Consider it an infinite surface area. The progression: log->tinder->suspended dust->well mixed gas illustrates the point.

[spunkets]

Someone was in charge of those stage ops there. I'm not really amazed that they didn't put out that fire before it got out of hand, because the morons running the fireworks didn't recognize they were lighting them in a tinderbox. They also didn't have extinguishers on hand. Airheads.

[meyer]

Richard, Thanks for the ping. Very informative post. I'll never look at fire quite the same way (and frankly, after seeing the footage of the night club fire, I have been much more respectful of fire anyway).

[Richard Kimball]

No, I'm not with Waco. I've worked with some of the people there on projects, but spent most of my career in another city.