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We didn't have a freaking clue about what we should do, so we kind of made things up as we went along, as influenced by events.

Like Zimmerman telling Izetbegovic to withdraw his signature from the Lisbon Agreement, that could have prevented the war. Yeah, those guys at the State Departement and at the Pentagon don't know what they're doing. Don't think so.

I have no knowledge that that happened, and besides, so long as Serbs were howling for Greater Serbia, war was inevitable anyway,

The Serbs besieged Sarajevo.

BS. Sarajevo was partly under Serbian and partly under muslim controll during the whole war. It was a divided city, whereas both sides kept firing on each other. It looked like siege on CNN, but it wasn't. The Serbs held to their parts of the city and the surrounding suburbs and the muslims to theirs. Ever heard of Grbavica, Romanija? How many tens of thousands Serbs had to leave Serb Sarajevo after Dayton? What about the muslim staged Markale killings for PR purposes?

Oh, horse$#!t. Non-Serb Sarajevo was surrounded and cut off from the outside world with only a tunnel to keep it alive (I've seen the tunnel, thank you very much). The city was subject to random shellfire from the surrounding hills and to snipers who shot people down in the streets. I'm not making that up; that was on TV for years, and contributed heavily to your defeat. And it sounds to me like you're morally outraged that the beseiged inside the city actually had the effrontery to fire back. Kind of like Srebrenica.

Europe began to be flooded with large number of Yugoslavian refugees, annoying European taxpayers.

Serbia received almost a milion refugees, so what?

The rest of Europe was not at war. You Annoyed the Neighbors. Bad move.

Muslims and Croats began to beat the hell out of each other when things got tough, thus making the Serbs look a little bit better by comparison.

How come the Serbs had no problems at all with Fikret Abdic, the elected President of Bosnia and Hercegovina, but croats and Alija's muslims did?

Because Abdic, annoyed that he didn't get his turn as Bosnian President, cooperated with Izzy's enemies. You guys.

Serbs began to threaten taking UN piecekeepers and relief personnel hostage.

Serbs were getting bombed these 'peacekeepers', so they shouldn't been surprised about retaliation.

Uh, no, the hostages were taken BEFORE, not AFTER, the bombing commenced; the threats began when we tried to get the Serbs to come to the negotiating table. Again, Bad Move. You Annoyed The Neighbors.

Serbs began rounding up Muslim prisoners of war and sticking them in barns and machinegunning them to death in public...

On CNN? Must have missed that one!

Under the eyes of US intelligence who turned the data over to the UN and the ICTY, and was eventually used to throw Krstic in jail for life.

We also decided that the bogus Serb "independent republics" in Croatia needed to be put out of business, not because we thought the Croats had the better claim, but because they were slightly better behaved than the Serbs were (better behaved = not rounding up and shooting large numbers of people with an election year coming up, and having the good sense to keep TV cameras away when ethnic cleansing).

What are you talking about? Krajina was calm for about three years, since the UN came in. Except Medak poket. Where did this rounding up and shooting of Croats by Krajina Serbs took place in 1995?

This is Textbook Serb Spin. Haven't seen anything like it since the impeachment. No. They didn't round up and shoot Croats, nor did they do it in 1995. They ETHNICALLY CLEANSED Croats, drove them out at gunpoint, and did that in 1991-1992 during the early stages of the war.

Blitz, Storm, and the NATO bombing campaign, followed by creative sleep deprivation against the Serb negotiators in Dayton (plus taking advantage of the fact that Milosevic cut your throats when you weren't looking by giving away the Brcko store and the territories around Sarajevo--he SCREWED you guys, don't you know?), followed by the Op. Joint Forge REAL peacekeeping mission.

Yes, Milosevic screwed the Serbs. Agreed.

Notify the media. We agree on something.

Early on, the US might have been perfectly willing to allow a settlement where the Serbs were allowed to keep these lands in their jurisdiction. As it was, we DID allow you to keep 49% of Bosnia, even though you're only 31% of the population there.

How generous you are, to allow people to keep their own property.

Really? What about the property of the "muslis" etc you guys drove out of the RS? You keep showing maps of 1981 and 1991. Have you the balls to show maps of Bosnia today, where the RS has majority Serb in tons of territory not portrayed as majority Serb in your 1991 maps? Territory taken by the BSA to ensure "territorial integrity of greater Serbia" and then cleansed (not necessarily genocided but cleansed by driving out) of Muslims?

Signs of a perverted and degenerated morality. The Serbs make up only 31% due to the Ustasha-genocide in WWII. Are you happy that the number of Serbs in Bosnia and Croatia was reduced so succesfully by Hitler's allies?

Standard Serb Party Line. Let's see some independent (NON SERB NON CROAT) numbers on the "genocide" of Serbs in WW2 please. Besides, that was then; this is now; you don't have the right to invoke your father's suffering to justify your own crimes.

Private ownership of land of those households whose head of the family is of Serbian nationality in percents in Bosnia and Herzegovina (according to settlements) according to the population census on March 31, 1981

See above. Where are the maps of 2003?

In 1999, after our (admittedly in-your-face) negotiations with Serbia broke down, you started repeating steps "5" and "7" above against the Kosovars.

Ah, that's what you call negotiating: 'Sign or get bombed'! As a lawyer you should know, that contracts signed under the barrel of a gun are null and void.

Uh, a treaty is NOT a contract. Are you saying the Japanese surrender of 1945 is null and void? And yes, sign or get bombed is what we do to countries that commit war crimes that Annoy The Neighbors. As Hussein is about to discover.

The refugee crisis 'exploded' after NATO started it's carpet bombing in Kosovo. But that's what NATO needed to sell this 'humanitarian war', isn't it?

Well, it exploded after the paramilitary thugs who've been hanging around in coffee bars in Serbia decided to roll south and shoot up the country. The fact that it helped us sell the war should have been taken into account before you guys let the tigers loose.

Be glad we didn't shut down the Republika Srpska too. Frankly I wish we'd did, the place is a hellhole.

Like you did shut down the former Yugoslavia? Mister, you are an @$$hole, who is no position to shut down countries around the planet.

Like I said. Watch us.

homeagain balkansvet wrote:
"Oh, horse$#!t. Non-Serb Sarajevo was surrounded and cut off from the outside world with only a tunnel to keep it alive (I've seen the tunnel, thank you very much). The city was subject to random shellfire from the surrounding hills and to snipers who shot people down in the streets. I'm not making that up; that was on TV for years, and contributed heavily to your defeat. And it sounds to me like you're morally outraged that the beseiged inside the city actually had the effrontery to fire back. Kind of like Srebrenica."

SS Jihadi, read how Fanatic Fascist your SS Jihads were:

Canadian Major-General Lewis MacKenzie, commander of U.N. forces in Sarajevo, explains this incident in his book "Peacakeeper, The Road to Sarajevo":

"[...] May 27 1992 - Disaster in Sarajevo. People lined up for bread were attacked, and at least seventeen killed. Presidency claims it was a Serb mortar attack, Serbs claim it was a set-up using explosives. Our people tell us there were a number of things that didn't fit. The street had been blocked off just before the incident. Once the crowd was let in and lined up, the media appeared but kept distance. The attack took place, and the media was immediately on the scene. The majority of people killed are alleged to be "tame Serbs". Who knows? The only thing for sure is that innocent people were killed. [...]"

"Muslims 'slaughter their own people'

Bosnia bread queue massacre was propaganda ploy, UN told

United Nations officials and senior Western military officers believe some of the worst recent killings in Sarajevo, including the massacre of at least 16 people in a bread queue, were carried out by the city's mainly Muslim defenders - not Serb besiegers - as a propaganda ploy to win world sympathy and military intervention.

The view has been expressed in confidential reports circulating at UN headquarters in New York, and in classified briefings to US policymakers in Washington. All suggest that Sarajevo's defenders, mainly Muslims but including Croats and a number of Serb residents, staged several attacks on their own people in the hope of dramatizing the city's plight in the face of insuperable Serbian odds.

[...] The televised scenes of civilians cut to pieces by an explosion as they queued for bread on one of Sarajevo's main shopping thoroughfares, Vase Miskina, horrified international public opinion and added to growing pressure for military intervention against the Serbian side in the war. Vivid footage showed dead bodies littering the street and people with severed limbs sitting on the pavement in pools of blood. The attack came shortly before a meeting of European Community ambassadors to consider imposing sanctions on Serbia. The world's press concluded that the atrocity was caused by mortar bombs fired from a Serbian-held positions and attack was widely interpreted as a cynical display of defiance by the Serbs.

[...] Classified reports to the UN force commander, General Satish Nambiar, concluded, however, that the Bosnian forces loyal to President Alija Izetbegovic may have detonated a bomb. [...]"

The Independent, "Muslims 'slaughter their own people'", 22. August 1992

"British experts dispute Sarajevo bombing probe

"[...] British ammunition experts serving with the United Nations in Sarajevo have challenged key "evidence" of the Serbian atrocity that triggered NATO's devastating bombing campaign this year. The experts, who examined the scene of the market massacre in Sarajevo in August, said they found no evidence that Bosnian Serbs had fired the lethal mortar round. They suspected the Bosnian government army might have been responsible.

They said French analysts who also examined the scene agreed with them. But they were overruled by the senior American officer, and the UN issued a statement saying it was beyond any doubt that the Bosnian Serbs were responsible for the blast, in which 37 people were killed and 90 wounded. The carnage was used as the pretext for NATO's huge air campaign against the Bosnian Serbs, which was followed by extensive battlefield losses and forced the Serbs to the negotiating table. The British experts were part of a UN team that reached the Trznica market in Sarajevo 40 minutes after the mortar attack on the morning of August 28. They began their inspection amid a bloody scene of smashed fruit stalls and screaming people.

[...] They suspected that the perpetrator might easily have been the Bosnian government army, which has been implicated in other incidents such as a rocket attack on Sarajevo's television station on June 29 in which five people died and 30 others were injured. The observations and findings were confirmed by the French, and they returned to base to make their report. A senior American officer at the United Nations Protection Force headquarters in Sarajevo dismissed their findings, however, citing a small groove known as a "fuse furrow" made in the ground by the bomb head.

He said this indicated that the fatal mortar round had come from the same direction as the others. Neither British nor French analysts noticed such a groove. By nightfall, the UN announced that the Bosnian Serbs were to blame. Fewer than 48 hours later, the NATO air strikes and artillery campaign began. [...]"

London Sunday Times, "British experts dispute Sarajevo bombing probe", 29. Oktober 1995

"Mystery of the market massacre by Eve-Ann Prentice

[...] SIXTY-EIGHT people died and more than 200 were injured when a single shell exploded in a small Sarajevo market. The ghastly scenes were filmed and a horrified world was left in no doubt that the Serbs were to blame. The slaughter brought deeper American involvement in the Balkans, with the formation of the US- led Contact Group and an American-negotiated alliance between Bosnia's Muslims and Croats. The massacre also ultimately paved the way for American airstrikes on Bosnian Serb positions in late summer, 1995.

[...] A Western diplomat who was in Sarajevo at the time told me in 1999 that he was convinced the bombing was perpetrated by the Muslim-led Government. The Muslims were sure that the Serbs would be blamed and hoped that outrage at the carnage would lead to airstrikes against their foes and increase pressure for a lifting of the arms embargo that was in place against all the warring sides. Britain and France were vehemently opposed to lifting the embargo, although America had shown signs of wanting to arm the Muslims.

"On the morning of the explosion some people were told that it was not a good day to go to the market," the Western diplomat said. "There was also no shelling from the Serb positions that day, and the injuries were mainly from the waist down, as if a bomb had exploded in situ." The diplomat said that another sign that the Muslim- led Government had been responsible was that government media with cameras were on the scene "within seconds", as if poised in advance to record the full horror of the carnage to gain as much world impact as possible. [...]"

The Times [London], "Mystery of the market massacre", 28. März 2000

Karadjordje

homeagain balkansvet wrote

And it sounds to me like you're morally outraged that the beseiged inside the city actually had the effrontery to fire back. Kind of like Srebrenica.

Very much like Srebrenica as the Muslims would not allow anyone to leave without paying a bribe. You can leave, IF you pay the daily going rate.

Regards to shooting back, the Muslims shoot back at innocent civilians helping their neighbors who were hit by shrapnel. Your local friendly Muslim Police Officer friends ended up tapping a Serbian girl who was bandaging up her neighbor Muslim friend. They walked up to her and bam! Killed the Serbian girl.

Why? What was her crime? It was due to her being a Serb. I met her Serbian boyfriend who was in the Red Berets while in the field. They were dating since they were in high school and were going to marry once she was able to leave Sarajevo. You want to know why she could not leave? The Muslms would not allow her to go, so instead they put her six feet under. Balija, there was a big reason why people were not allowed to leave. The Serb units would not have fired upon the civilians unless fired upon. That was well known, but what was also well known is the Muslim willingness to fire upon the fleeing civilians. Why do you not know that?

You ever hear of the Romeo and Juliet killing, balija?

In the spring of 1993 two young people were killed by sniper fire as they attempted to flee Sarajevo. The bodies of the Muslim woman, Admira Ismic, and her Serbian lover, Bosko Brckic, lay in each others’ arms on a Sarajevan bridge for several days, as the various factions in the brutal war assigned blame, and a picture of the dead couple dominated the international media.

SARAJEVO, Bosnia-Herzegovina (CNN) -- Two young lovers from Sarajevo, shot dead by sniper fire as they tried to escape the siege of Sarajevo in 1993, were brought home and reburied together Wednesday.

Admira Ismic and Bosko Brkic were dubbed "Romeo and Juliet" because of their clashing ethnic backgrounds -- she was Muslim, he was Serbian -- and their tragic end. The two were both 25 years old, and had been together for nine years. They decided to flee Sarajevo in May 1993, when a Serb stranglehold on the city was at its height, to escape to safety, anywhere else.

Friends in the Muslim government army promised them safe passage out of the city. They walked confidently from Bosnian government front lines in the heart of the city past snipers and towards the bridge they would take out of Sarajevo and into Grbavica, a Serb-held territory. From there they hoped to go on to Belgrade -- and a new life.

But as they crossed the Vrbanja bridge in broad daylight, over the Miljacka River into Serb territory, Bosko was shot by sniper fire, and died. Ismic, also wounded by sniper fire, crawled to her childhood sweetheart, put an arm around him, and died at his side, never trying to escape to safety herself.

Their tragic story was told worldwide over the next week as Serbs and Muslims argued over who was responsible for shooting them, and which side should risk the treacherous journey onto the bridge to recover the bodies and bury them.

The couple's bodies laid side by side on the bridge for eight days, until finally the Serbian side went in under cover of night to drag the corpses away. Muslim prisoners later claimed they were tethered by their Serbian captors and forced to go out on the bridge to drag the by-then decaying bodies back.

Serb troops buried the pair in Lukavica, the site of a large Serb army barracks. But Admira's father Zijah felt that with the war over, the right resting place for the star-crossed pair was in the city where they met and fell in love. Thus it was that the bodies of Admira and Bosko were exhumed from an untended grave in Yugoslavia and shipped back to the city whose wartime strife they tried to escape. Caskets

They were buried side by side Wednesday in Lion Cemetery, surrounded by thousands of other victims of the Sarajevo siege and within sight of the cafe where they courted. Zijah said he had tried without success to find Bosko's family and get permission for the reburial. Bosko's mother came from the Yugoslav capital of Belgrade in 1993 for the first funeral.

Balija, what they do not tell you is the Muslims killed the Serbian man and wounded her to make for wider suffering for the worlds camera.

They also do not fully explain that they were leaving for Beograd, IN Serbia. Why to Serbia? She was muslim the "hated enemy". They were only hated when they were bent on killing their neighbor, the Serb.

They do not stress enough that the Serb Army was prevented in recovering the bodies due to muslim snajperi positioned in three or four difft locales in the area. But, the Serbian soldiers demonstrated to the world and to the muslims the Serbian heart and courage by recovering the dead bodies under sniper fire.

Where is your outrage against your muslim brotherhood on that, balija?