Nuclear War At Any Moment - N. Korea

Gloucestershire ^

[RCW2001]

14:00 - 20 February 2003

Relations between North and South Korea are now so grave that military commanders have warned a nuclear war could break out at any moment.

This follows an incident in which a North Korean fighter jet briefly crossed into South Korea but retreated after being confronted by two southern jets.

Anti-aircraft missile units have been put into battle position in the South Korean capital of Seoul

Only a few days ago the North threatened to abandon the armistice keeping peace along the countries' tense border.

The incursion, the first by a North Korean military jet since 1983, increased jitters on the peninsula, where the North is locked in a dispute over nuclear weapons development.

KCNA, the North's state news agency and a mouthpiece of the regime, said the situation on the peninsula was now "so alarming that a nuclear war may break out at any moment."

Tension has crept up since October, when US officials said North Korea had admitted having a covert nuclear weapons programme.

Washington and its allies suspended fuel shipments, and the North retaliated by expelling UN monitors, taking steps to restart frozen nuclear facilities and withdrawing from the Nuclear Non-proliferation Treaty.

[Just mythoughts]

What kind of evidence do you require for the Russian connection?

[L,TOWM]

I would be interested in just about anything. I'm am not too sure of the relevance of any deal that Stalin and Kim Il Sung had dating back to the '40's, however; those clymers are probably roasting in an extremely disgusting portion of Hell right now.

[Just mythoughts]

The deal was with Stalin and China. Moscow/Beijing I think it was called.

The deal sent 120,000 Chinese troops down on around 12,000 UN - American/UK troops. Stalin was calling the shots, he died in 1953, hence the armistice which N. Korea is saying this week they will ignore.

American POW's in Korean War were taken to Soviet Union.

Am I saying to ignore N. Korea, not hardly millions of starving people cannot be ignored. Why is N. Korea demanding that only US talk with them? Why does the UN ignore the starving masses?


Russia has never given up control of N. Korea.

Do I have a document that says Russia freed N. Korea, no I don't, however, 1945 is not that long ago and if there has been an end of Russian control where is that paperwork.

[Quix]

That mentality IS rather pervasive.

The ethnocentrism is awesome.

It's as though the old saw about everyone else being seen as BARBARIANS is REALLY, REALLY, REALLY TRUE.

It still boggles my mind that a beginner at Chinese chess can often have to play against 6 Chinese--all of whom have played all their lives--if he protests, they'll play more by the rules but it's like considered a weakness to protest. They would never even THINK of helping the beginner in balanced sides. Interesting.

And it's a kind of DIVINE RIGHT sort of mentality--like the HEAVENS or the Heavenly Father has decreed that OF COURSE the Chinese should have all these advantages and blessings and resources--BY RIGHTS--regardless of logic or fairness or whatever.

And otherwise highly educated, logical people can really become irrational at such times on such issues.

Really fascinating.

[Bill Davis FR]

nk test sk with probe into the south...war is not far away...

[RightWhale]

Yep. I see that, too. It's just a matter of time, and they are patient. Maybe the sun won't burn out first.

[jerseygirl]

Also, I bet they were hoping SK would shoot at their jet, justifying their actions

[L,TOWM]

OK. I am still having a tough time seeing Russia's hand behind the current situation.

I can't see what the payoff is for Russia in pulling the "bellicosity" string for the DPRK (if they even have a string attached). I can't see what the DPRK would be getting from Russia for responding to that string pull (assuming that there is a string to be pulled).

If Russia had been propping up North Korea in the last few years, well, OK, I could see the influence there. My impression is that the NK's are starving simply because very little propping up from anyone is going on, and the little that has been done was being done by the Sinkmeister's regime.

No, from where I am sitting, I believe that the DPRK is after:
a)Getting us off the Korean Peninsula, which would set up their re unifying with the South,
b)Bullying us to give them food, fuel, and $$$ and/or
c)Having us broker a foreign aid deal with a lot of countries, without them having to give up anything.

I am not sure how any of those outcomes would serve the national interests of the Russians.

The $64k question is, will they go to war if we don't play along?

[Eric in the Ozarks]

I guess I thought it was the Red Chinese that darned near ran the US off the peninsula, armed the NK's and fed them for 50 years. Their fingerprints are all over the "crisis."

[L,TOWM]

OK, that's a little easier to take than the Russian influence I've been debating on this thread, but I'm not convinced of the PRC influence either.

I'm can't completely disagree with the idsea of a chineese collar on this puppy, but I don't know if there is a leash or how effective that leash is on the dog. The PRC is in a better position than we are to grasp the mindset and unpredictability of their little neighbors. Giving my dog analogy a little more play, a great dog that barks and growls on command can be useful, but if that dog gets rabid, the last thing I want to do is let it loose on the neighbors. After the rabid beast gets put down, some one might want to have some intense conversation with ME.

The stuff I have read is that the ability of ANY nation to influence the DPRK has diminished over the last twenty years. The DPRK has been mostly a burden and an embarrassment to the hard core ideological commies, and an anachronism to the Chineese and the Russians. Most of the background on the DPRK stresses the level of isolation, even from their neighbors, the PRC. It is also difficult to believe that the PRC

Now, if the PRC has been feeding the DPRK since 1950, why are so many of the North's citizens starving? Why would the DPRK launch a missile over Japan, when the PRC has been earnestly trying to make nice with the Nipponeese for the last 20 years? It is also difficult to believe that the PRC would countenence ANY action that would lead to nationally produced and controlled Nuclear Weapons becoming politically acceptable in Japan.

Beyond the distraction factor (perhaps letting the PRC have a shot at Taiwan), what would the pay off be for the PRC? If this is being manipulated by the PRC, would'nt it then require a war, and then be pretty obvious who prodded the DPRK into a war with us when an intricate military operation by the PRC just "happens" to occur at the same time we are tied up with Iraq and the DPRK?

No, I still think this is a joker loose in the deck, and that the PRC, Russia, Japan, and ROK are trying like hell to get the DPRK to sit down to talks and see reason. If the PRC and Russia were backing up the DPRK's statements that they will only talk to us, well, I would see it then. They are backing our position of regional talks quite well, actually.

[L,TOWM]

Ping to this thread with a request that you look at posts 101 through 130 and tell me if I am spreading Bandini. No one has actually accused me of that, but I want to make sure that I am not blowing a bunch of crap on a serious (not series) discussion.

[ambrose]

Maybe a North Korean general will get the guts to do the right thing, and put a bullet in Kim Jong-Il's head before his country vanishes.

[Eric in the Ozarks]

The NK generals are so skinny, it'd be impossible to sneak a gun in under a jacket. Better luck poisoning his cognac.

[DoctorMichael]

My South Korean colleague says that "South Korea wants to be treated as an equal with the United States of America".

I asked him, "Do you South Koreans have an expression like we have in the US.....'Bite the hand that feeds you'"?

[DoctorMichael]

......young students view Bush as more evil than their blood brother, Kim Jong il.......

Total agreement. My South Korean exchange student told me this to my face.........right after he went back to SK for a quickie wedding......brought her back here........and got her pregnant......also, just before he inquired about the American governments retirement programs

[Principled]

do you feel lucky, punk?

[Eric in the Ozarks]

No body said they were stupid.

[Paulus Invictus]

Unfortunately, only one would probably take out our 37K troops there on the border. Our response to that atrocity would be fatal to NKorea, but to lose that many US troops at once would be devastating from a political point of view as well as a tragedy for the US.

Remember, it has been the RATS screaming that NK is more of a threat than Iraq. They would be the first to condemn the Prez if we do lose a lot of people there and the sheeple would surely agree. That's my guess, anyway...

[L,TOWM]

>>>>Unfortunately, only one would probably take out our 37K troops there on the border.<<<<<

That's not where I'd put one. If I were an NK General, and was told by the Dear Leader to come up with a plan, I would insist on 2, preferably 3 nukes being made available and 3 weeks to get my special ops teams ready.

I would kick off hostillities a few days after my government agreed to the regional dialogue being proposed by the US. This would involve commando teams striking at every major airbase in the region, RoK, Japan, Okinawa, and Guam. My goal would be to cripple the air forces of the RoK and Korea. These strikes would, of course be planned to occur simultaneously, and i would try to destroy aircraft, kill pilots, and crater runways.

This would be followed on by an all out assault across the DMZ. My objective would be military control of the entire peninsula within 5 days. If I had nukes, I would announce that fact. I would also threaten the Marine base at Okinawa with a nuclear strike, if the Marines started to move. I would also state that a No dong with a nuke warhead is targeted on Pusan, and that it would be used if the port were to start receiving military equipment. Finally, I would announce that further resistance by the U.S. would result in a nuclear weapon being detonated in a large city in the US mainland, and offer the prospect of peaceful surrender and quick release of all american servicemen in Korea, with their equipment, if they did not resist the "re-unification".

This course of action would (of course) result in the DPRK being blown off the map, but, does the Dear Leader know that? Does he believe that no war against us is "winnable"?

[Just mythoughts]

The Red Chinese were the bodies who came but it was Stalin who was the director. Soviets were in control, in the 1990's Russia had no money that is why Clinton made us N. Korea's sugar daddy. We for the most part, have been feeding them, and provided their nuclear wares, since the 90's, Russia's main influence is diplomatic to this day.

Chinese do what is necessary to keep the Koreans in N. Korea. There is no doubt that China and Russia work together when it suits their purpose, they each have long term goals and putting their thumb down on US is that goal.

Why does N. Korea demand to meet only with US no one else? Why did Russia send China more military hardware this past week? $$$$$$$$$$

There are web sites that lay out much information about the Korean War.