Verdict in German 9-11 Trial: Guilty - 15 years for first 9/11 accused

Wednesday, February 19, 2003

[Michael81Dus]

No, he is sentenced to 15 years, he could be free at the earliest after 12 years. But I doubt that this will be the case, since he is guilty in 3.066 cases.

[PBRSTREETGANG]

It´s not a daily event to convict mass-murderers. Our laws are not only made for mass-murderers.

That is not an excuse for not having laws that adequately deal with mass-murderers.

[Michael81Dus]

He is not a mass-murderer. He "just" helped the guys of the Sept 11 attacks. A murderer could get the maximum penalty of life-long (released after 15-20 years and in case of mass-murder being sent to mental hospital), those who are guilty of accessory to murder 15 years. No matter how many people are killed. We don´t have to excuse to anybody how our courts rule. We are a sovereign country and don´t need to say sorry for too weak convictions. The maximum is found appropriate by the Court and that´s ok.
No foreigner has the right to tell us how we should treat our prisoners and how we should make our laws.
You could have asked for extradiction, but the US didn´t.

[TheBattman]

CNN's Matthew Chance said the 15-year sentence was the maximum the court could impose under German law.

German law sucks.

[wimpycat]

15 years for accessory to over 3,000 deaths--they really threw the book at him, didn't they.

[Catspaw]

Yeah--but, like with Jihad Johnny Walker Lindh (whom I blame for the death of Mike Spann), no sentence is long enough or harsh enough for me.

My only grim satisfaction, such as it is, is knowing that Richard Reid is doing life without parole in the super-max in Florence, Colorado, in 23, out for 1, no contact with any other inmate for the rest of his life.

No sentence will ever bring back the victims. No sentence will ever give solace to the families of the survivors. The only thing we can do is NEVER FORGET...oh, and track these animals down to the ends of the earth.

[IncPen]

I completely agree with you.

When I made my post the only information was 'verdict: guilty'

The verdict is encouraging; the sentence is discouraging.

[Chad Fairbanks]

You Germans and your darn decimals for Numeric Grouping... Grrrr.... ;0)

[FreedomPoster]

There needs to be some immediate wetwork if this guy ever gets released from prison. There needs to be an instant message.

[PBRSTREETGANG]

I am not looking for an excuse or an apology. Nor am I telling you how to make your laws, as I fully expect to have zero input into that process.

I am however entitled to criticize laws which I find to be utterly inadequate to address the situation to which they are being applied.

[Chad Fairbanks]

No foreigner has the right to tell us how we should treat our prisoners and how we should make our laws.

I agree with you on that... so do me a favour - write a letter to the EU, and tell them to STFU about our death penalty usage, will ya? And all that griping about our prisoners at Gitmo... Thanks... :0)

[americanbychoice]

I would have to say that in a German Jail he probably lives better than he ever has. He probably will order his 72 virgins one at a time while he is there. :)

[wimpycat]

No foreigner has the right to tell us how we should treat our prisoners and how we should make our laws.

Please tell that to all your friends and any other non-American who wants to bitch about the death penalty.

Don't get me wrong. I fully recognize and respect Germany's right to run their own affairs. And I realize this guy got the maximum sentence under German law.

Terry Nichols, who was convicted as an accomplice to Timothy McVeigh blowing up the Federal building in Oklahoma City, will spend the rest of his life in prison for only 10% of the deaths that the guy sentenced today helped cause.

[freepersup]

What WOULD be appropriate though... I am expressing (in the abstract-for emphasis) an outrage at a sentence utterly insufficent and inappropriate for mass murder- in this case aiding in the slaughter of over 3,000 human beings.

ever read the constitition of the United States, yes

land of the free, home of the brave? you won't find this quote in the constitution, but you can find it in our national anthem (a colloquialism on your part-for emphasis)

I can´t find there a right to impale people.likewise- you don't find a specific prohibition to impaling

[americanbychoice]

Then that raises the question: Can you ever LOSE your dignity through your actions? I also see that there is now a call for increasing the penalty for child molesters, who up to now basically have been tol, never to do it again. What about that murderer who was given 12? years for killing a girl with the possibility of getting out 5 years from now? He showed no remorse, was 19 years old and was tried as a Juvenile. A very "Dignified" act?

[An.American.Expatriate]

Hello Michael,

you state that no foreigner has the right to tell you how to treat your prisoners, but you and all of europe reserve this right to yourselfs when speaking about the american justice system.

American law also understands the concept of conspiracy to commit a crime which carries the same penalty as the crime itself. By the logic of the german court, Osama bin Laden himself would only receive a maximun sentence of 15 years since he didn't actually "pull the trigger".

At a minimum, this piece of dung should have been tried on 4 separate charges since four separate but related acts were carried out and then be forced to serve the punishment consecutively (also probably not allowed under German law).

Extradition: Germany would not have extradited him even if we had asked as he "could" have been subject to the death penalty - so your last point is irrelevent!

[witnesstothefall]

If this man lives through his term I'll be surprised. If he lives for more than a year after his release, I'll be amazed.

[Michael81Dus]

As long as you don´t execute our citizen without acknowledging the offenders right of assistance by the consulates, I haven´t heard that the EU protested against the death penalty. And if so, I´ll talk to my local party chairman, he´s Member of the European Parliament.

[Michael81Dus]

It´s impossible to lose or give up your right of untouchable dignity. Noone is allowed to hurt your dignity. In our military, insulting or ordering the lower ranks to do unneccessary jobs is forbidden.
We´ve completely changed after WWII and became a truly liberal society.

[Chad Fairbanks]

http://www.aclu.org/DeathPenalty/DeathPenalty.cfm?ID=7610&c=64