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To: WhiskeyPapa
Obviously nonsense, as Lincoln's aim was the maintenance of the Union.

He claimed it was, yet little reason exists to believe him. In fact, Alexis de Tocqueville famously predicted that if some states went to war to coerce and suppress other states, they would likely do under the "borrowed name" of the union.

If tariffs were an issue, he would have offered a course of action to address that grievance.

Not if collecting taxes were more important to The Lincoln than giving them up. Considering his obsession with collecting tariffs throughout the secession crisis, all indications suggest that they were.

397 posted on 02/23/2003 8:48:50 PM PST by GOPcapitalist
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To: GOPcapitalist
Obviously nonsense, as Lincoln's aim was the maintenance of the Union.

He claimed it was, yet little reason exists to believe him.

You can't really believe the crap you post.

Do you think Lincoln's call for volunteers on 15 April, 1861 was filled to overflowing because of tariffs? That hundreds of thousands of loyal Union men joined the army to fight for tariffs?

It's complete nonsense. They joined because this made sense to them:

"And this issue embraces more than the fate of these United States. It presents to the whole family of man, the question whether a constitutional republic, or a democracy--a government of the people, by the same people, can, or cannot, maintain its territorial integrity, against its own domestic foes. It presents the question, whether discontented individuals too few in numbers to control administration, according to organic law, in any case, can always, upon the pretenses made in this case, or on any other pretenses, or arbitrarily without any pretense, break up their Government, and thus practically put an end to free government upon the earth."

A. Lincoln 7/4/61

It is just complete nonsense to say that the war was fought over tariffs.

Loyal Union men, north and south fought for Union. The rebels fought to maintain slavery. Slavery was the cause of the war.

Walt

398 posted on 02/24/2003 5:46:55 AM PST by WhiskeyPapa (Be copy now to men of grosser blood and teach them how to war!)
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To: GOPcapitalist
If tariffs were an issue, he would have offered a course of action to address that grievance.

Not if collecting taxes were more important to The Lincoln than giving them up.

You can't show they were. You can only make a bigger fool of yourself.

This is what was important to Lincoln (speech at Independence Hall):

Mr. Cuyler:

I am filled with deep emotion at finding myself standing here, in this place, where were collected together the wisdom, the patriotism, the devotion to principle, from which sprang the institutions under which we live. You have kindly suggested to me that in my hands is the task of restoring peace to the present distracted condition of the country. I can say in return, Sir, that all the political sentiments I entertain have been drawn, so far as I have been able to draw them, from the sentiments which originated and were given to the world from this hall. I have never had a feeling politically that did not spring from the sentiments embodied in the Declaration of Independence. I have often pondered over the dangers which were incurred by the men who assembled here, and framed and adopted that Declaration of Independence. I have pondered over the toils that were endured by the officers and soldiers of the army who achieved that Independence. I have often inquired of myself what great principle of idea it was that kept this Confederacy so long together. It was not the mere matter of the separation of the Colonies from the motherland; but that sentiment in the Declaration of Independence which gave liberty, not alone to the people of this country, but, I hope, to the world, for all future time. It was that which gave promise that in due time the weight would be lifted from the shoulders of all men. This is a sentiment embodied in the Declaration of Independence. Now, my friends, can this country be saved upon that basis? If it can, I will consider myself one of the happiest men in the world, if I can help to save it. If it cannot be saved upon that principle, it will be truly awful. But if this country cannot be saved without giving up that principle, I was about to say I would rather be assassinated on this spot than surrender it. Now, in my view of the present aspect of affairs, there need be no bloodshed or war. There is no necessity for it. I am not in favor of such a course, and I may say, in advance, that there will be no bloodshed unless it be forced upon the Government, and then it will be compelled to act in self-defence.

My friends, this is wholly an unexpected speech, and I did not expect to be called upon to say a word when I came here. I supposed it was merely to do something toward raising the flag. I may, therefore, have said something indiscreet. (Cries of "No, no") I have said nothing but what I am willing to live by and, if it be the pleasure of Almighty God, die by."

22 February, 1861

Walt

399 posted on 02/24/2003 5:51:24 AM PST by WhiskeyPapa (Be copy now to men of grosser blood and teach them how to war!)
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