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To: groanup
Oh, I give you what you ask for and you change your question.

You've done nothing of the sort. I've asked you for a quote from any southern leader, military or civilian, which indicates that their view of blacks was more liberal or more enlightened than President Lincoln's. Let me make it easier for you. Here is a quote from the first Lincoln-Douglas debate:

There is a physical difference between the two, which, in my judgment, will probably forever forbid their living together upon the footing of perfect equality, and inasmuch as it becomes a necessity that there must be a difference, I, as well as Judge Douglas, am in favor of the race to which I belong having the superior position. I have never said anything to the contrary, but I hold that, notwithstanding all this, there is no reason in the world why the negro is not entitled to all the natural rights enumerated in the Declaration of Independence, the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. I hold that he is as much entitled to these as the white man. I agree with Judge Douglas he is not my equal in many respects-certainly not in color, perhaps not in moral or intellectual endowment. But in the right to eat the bread, without the leave of anybody else, which his own hand earns, he is my equal and the equal of Judge Douglas, and the equal of every living man.

So let's simplify it. How about a quote from any southern leader which hinted that the black man was his equal in any way. Any way at all.

Which ones told you that? The three thousand or so free blacks that owned black slaves?

No, I think Jefferson Davis would be enough. He was the one who said, "We recognize the negro as God and God's Book and God's Law in nature tells us to recognize him - our inferior, fitted expressly for servitude. Freedom only injures the slave. The innate stamp of inferiority is beyond the reach of change. You cannot transform the negro into anything one-tenth as useful or as good as what slavery enables him to be." Can't get more succinct than that, can you?

This has always been the gist of your arguments. No matter how bad Northern leaders were the Southern leaders were worse.

No, the gist of my arguement is the sheer, bloody hypocricy of all you sothron types who label Lincoln as a racist, and ignore the fact that your own leadership was worse.

310 posted on 02/21/2003 5:14:24 PM PST by Non-Sequitur
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To: Non-Sequitur
"I've asked you for a quote from any southern leader, military or civilian, which indicates that their view of blacks was more liberal or more enlightened than President Lincoln's."

Now there you go again. One quote is worth a thousand civilians. You obviously are a man of little depth because, to you, a single quote defines a whole people. Maybe you should reach out and touch someone. Do you live in a closet? I'm sure if I had the time and inclination I could find some quote buried in the archives of my local courthouse that would answer your ridiculous question but why bother? You will simply find another one. Lincoln enlightened? Please. He was a politician along the lines of Lyndon Johnson (" I just delivered the black vote to democrats for the next twenty years") who eventually used slavery to garner sympathy in some quarters toward his war effort. He was no friend of the black race and used them and their plight to win the war.

"No, I think Jefferson Davis would be enough. He was the one who said, "We recognize the negro as God and God's Book and God's Law in nature tells us to recognize him - our inferior, fitted expressly for servitude. Freedom only injures the slave. The innate stamp of inferiority is beyond the reach of change. You cannot transform the negro into anything one-tenth as useful or as good as what slavery enables him to be." Can't get more succinct than that, can you?"

This is your way of comparing two men. Jefferson Davis and Abraham Lincoln. They were politicians using rhetoric to further their causes. No doubt that most Southern leaders were of a like mind. No doubt that most Northern leaders were of a like mind. Remember, history is written by the winners. But in the case of the U.S. Civil War there were no winners. The U.S.A. became a socialist society. Slaves were freed but sent into a life of "root hog or die" and prevented from root-hogging. It's very convenient for you insufferable northerners to stick your noses in the air and tut-tut us ignorant Southerners. The truth is northerners had a fear and hatred of blacks while Southerners had an appreciation and closeness but an air of superiority. Neither is justified but the latter is at least communicable.

"No, the gist of my arguement is the sheer, bloody hypocricy of all you sothron types who label Lincoln as a racist, and ignore the fact that your own leadership was worse."

Labeling Lincoln a racist is a statement of fact. Give me ONE example of any of us ignoring the racist past of the South. You sir are guilty of ignoring your own racist past or, at least, being totally igorant of it which is more likely.

315 posted on 02/21/2003 5:54:41 PM PST by groanup
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To: Non-Sequitur
"We recognize the negro as God and God's Book and God's Law in nature tells us to recognize him - our inferior, fitted expressly for servitude

Funny, that's not what my Bible says. These traitors were scum.

Still waiting for one of the neo-confederates to denounce slavery. Not one has yet. Hmmmmmmmmmm...

316 posted on 02/21/2003 5:58:21 PM PST by Conservative til I die
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