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To: George Frm Br00klyn Park; No More Gore Anymore
No More Gore Anymore: I agree with everything you wrote - most social workers are mush-brained leftists, or starry-eyed idealists with no concept of where the money comes from. However, my original point was that social workers are absolutely necessary in schools today, for purely pragmatic reasons. Someone needs to deal with the abuse victims, the child who hasn't eaten in three days, and the child who shows up without a coat on when it is -5 outside. Someone needs to deal with the parents who allow their child to be chronically truant. My point was that these kinds of problems are far more prevalent today than they were when I was in school. If it is left to a teacher to do it, it will take more time away from the kids who want to learn - And they already lose enough teacher time because of the "squeaky wheel" effect of the ill-behaved spawn of unfit parents.

George: I think you are partially correct in your assignment of blame to the educational establishment; They are partly responsible for the unilateral disarmament of teachers, along with the trial lawyers. I know of a couple of teachers who have been sued for completely spurious reasons.

However, most of the problems in schools today are the result of broader societal problems. Drug-using parents and single parent households (frequently combined) raise children who have not been socialized as members of this species. These kids are completely out of control, and only in school because Mom will go to jail and/or lose the welfare check if they don't show.

In any event, no matter what caused the problems, they exist, and impede the educational process in almost every public school in America. If we don't deal with them, then education gets even worse, and the good kids who want to learn get screwed even more than they are now.

I'm not really a teacher - I'm just substitute teaching while I'm between jobs. As a military veteran and a business executive with an MBA, I have a hard time understanding the rationale for many of the policies which the school department has in place. If I were in charge (and, since I'm considering a run for school board in two years, that might actually happen) I would make a number of policy changes. They do a lot of things that are just plain dumb - like shift problem students from school to school instead of just getting rid of them, or sending them to a reform school program. However, all the school policy changes in the world won't eliminate the problem students, or make them miraculously see the error of their ways and behave.

From the article you cited: I quickly learned from such experiences how essential parental support is in determining whether a school succeeds in educating a child. And of course, parental support not just of the teachers but of the kids: as I came to know my students better, I saw that those who had seen violence, neglect, or drug abuse at home were usually the uncontrollable ones, while my best-behaved, hardest-working kids were typically those with the most nurturing home environments.

The author is absolutely correct, and the story he goes on to tell about being charged with assault and sued is all too familiar.

22 posted on 02/18/2003 5:40:04 PM PST by LouD
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To: LouD
"However, all the school policy changes in the world won't eliminate the problem students, or make them miraculously see the error of their ways and behave."
=========================
LD, There you are wrong. The return of corporal punishment and reform schools would return schools to what they were before the discipline was removed. Today EVERYBODY sees what happens to those who "misbehave", and many copy their actions KNOWING there will be no punishment for misbehavior. The "middle of the roaders", and even the "meek" many times will succumb to the tempting self interest of "fun". That is the state we are in today. HOW could those most highly educated people in the world NOT see the chaos their banning of discipline would necessarily bring?

Today, as you write, those who disrupt classes are placed in "special learning" classes with kids who actually need help. The schools get more money for the "special" classes. And, the VERY forseeable result is that the disrupters cause EVERYBODY to not learn the basics. "Smaller class size" is cried for, yet you and i both know that if only two students have one teacher, and one of the students is a chronic disrupter, the other student has NO possibility of reaching his/her "potential". In fact, the other student WILL learn that Disrupting is fun. and nothing happens. Thank "leadership" for these wonderous happenings.

When parents actually become "involved", and ask questions as, "Why is my "Johnny" in this class with all these 'bad' children?", they are routinely told that "This is the way it is." When Parents question anything that has been passed down from "on high" they are many times told that "Those with more education say this is the way it should be. You would not possibly understand." When parents try to become more than passive "teacher's assistants", they are no longer welcome. They must "schedule" any appearance in their child's classroom.

You mentioned school board. If you are lucky enough to be among the few districts left that have an elected school board, work and PRAY that it remains that way. Governor, or County Executive appointees DO tow the line of the feds to keep the federal money flow expanding. Parents do NOT run most school systems. Children are mandated to attend public {private/Home} schools. In the public school systems, they are managed for the hours they spend in school by the education bureaucracy, and the teachers that bureaucracy enables.

If the discipline of corporal punishment and reform schools were returned to the system, children would learn quickly that adverse reaction to "Johnny's" actions would affect "me" too JUST as quickly, if not more so, as they learned that "benevolent" reactions to their misbehavior is the norm.

Today, in the "zero tolerance" atmosphere, students learn VERY quickly that having even a picture of a gun, or even pointing a "chicken wing" will earn them a suspension. Peace and love, George.

23 posted on 02/19/2003 7:37:34 AM PST by George Frm Br00klyn Park (FREEDOM!!!!!!!)
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