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To: ffusco
...If I saved a person from drowning I world expect to have a friend for life....

I wouldn't. That's a form of opression--slavery really. If it's right to save them it's right. The decision to plunge in shouldn't depend upon one's expectations of gratitude.

...What if I saved a whole continent from fascism? All Europe has done for 50 years is take, take, take...

In fact, America's post war boom was predicated upon the fact that Europe was in ruins and they had to buy from our companies to re-build. There's nothing wrong with that but let's not romanticise--OK?

The Europeans all take 2 month vacations, have free health care and complain about Americans while we provide an entire fleet to defend them and the world order to allow them to prosper. ...

This is one of the most interesting arguments I read around here. In fact, the United States is HEAVILY socialistic. We have incredibly high taxation rates to support massive bureaucracies. The difference between us and Europe is that Europeans, as you correctly pont out, DEMAND something in return for their taxes---health care, vacations, etc. The US invests in a military that is 14 times bigger than the rest of the world's militaries combined. The fault, dear ffusco, is not in our Europeans, but in ourselves, that we are underlings (apologies to Shakespear.)

Was it France or germany that won the cold war? No, they are the ungrateful recipients of American sacrifice.

Was the Cold War the right thing to do or not? Were there no American interests at work in the Cold War?

...Only New Europe has shown any gratitude, not in words, platitudes (like the French) or empty gestures (like the Germans)....

Really? That's news to me. What else has "new" Europe (which oddly enough seems to be governed by all the old commies from the Cold War) offered us besides platitudes?

"... What have they EVER doen to repay us?...

Everything that is good true and beautiful about our way of life is based upon Old European ideas. Have you ever calculated how much we owe them?

...Hey you blood thirsty savages: You could never repay the USA in a thousand years.....

Well, that's that then. They're blood thirsty savages who could NEVER repay us, but we will demand gratitude forever and ever, amen. Sounds like a recipe for mutual understading and cooperation if I ever heard one.

"... I will never travel to France or Germany as long as I live..."

It's none of my business, of course. But you will be denying yourself a wonderful pleasure.

72 posted on 02/12/2003 2:53:38 PM PST by LaBelleDameSansMerci
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To: LaBelleDameSansMerci
-If I saved a person from drowning I world expect to have a friend for life....I wouldn't. That's a form of opression.

No, loyalty to a friend is a virtue. Obviously beyond your grasp. We helped our friends, now they abandon us, when all we ask is their moral support. IMHO they were never allies, just opportunists.


-In fact, America's post war boom was predicated upon the fact that Europe was in ruins and they had to buy from our companies to re-build.

Pure rubbish: The Marshall Plan rebuilt Japanese and European Industries at no cost to them. WE gave them state of the art factories that produced radios, televisions, motorcycles etc. that led to THEIR ECONOMIC MIRACLE of the 50's and 60's and contributed to our recession in the 60's and 70's. And they didn't have to buy from us.

-Was the Cold War the right thing to do or not? Were there no American interests at work in the Cold War?

The west winning the cold war was in the best interests of all free people. America had not just the means but the will to win the cold war. Many Euros, save the Brits, have neither.

-Everything that is good true and beautiful about our way of life is based upon Old European ideas. Have you ever calculated how much we owe them?

I don't need to. I'm first generation from Italy. My family came over because they knew this was the best country on Earth and honored it every way they could.



77 posted on 02/12/2003 3:45:35 PM PST by ffusco (sempre ragione)
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