Frank Herberts Children of Dune March 16 SCIFI channel

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[ottersnot]

Children of Dune Miniseries. SCIFI Channel starts March 16th, 9PM.

[Ramius]

Have to agree.

I had the distict privilege of meeting Mr. Herbert for lunch about twenty-some years ago, before the first movie was released. He spoke about the screen-adaptation process. Didn't care for it much, but he knew the reality of things.

It was a most remarkable meeting. He is a giant among writers.

Regards,

[Ramius]

distict = distinct. Yikes.

[Xenalyte]

Perhaps I should clarify. I've attempted to read Dune five times, between ages 21 and 33, and never gotten more than 100 pages into the first one.

The action is sloooow, and the characters aren't all that likable, but what really gets me is that I have to learn an entire new vocabulary AND mythology to appreciate the story. It's unnecessary and a drag on the book, and it could have been better done.

I give you Exhibit A: A Clockwork Orange. I had to learn tons of new words for that, and my copy didn't have a glossary, but they didn't distract me from the story; they added to the surreality and the eerie atmosphere.

The new vocab in Dune, on the other hand, irritated me to the point that I couldn't get past it.

However, to make y'all happy, and to forestall Paul's comments about my maturity level, I'll try it AGAIN, and report back. Maybe I've been granted patience since my most recent attempt, last summer.

[hattend]

I am serious. Dune is a multilayered work. Every time I have read it, I have found something new. It's not a standard action novel, but it is exciting.

Agreed...I've read the first 3 books 4 times and discover something new everytime. I love the whole franchise.

But then, I'm probably the one person on the planet that actually liked the theatrical movie. Most of the characters were casted perfectly to match my imagination's eye.

[Lx]

Having read all six books I have two observations:

1) Did Frank Herbert remember what he wrote in the first two books when he wrote the last two? The part of Scytale (sp?) is just one instance.

2) I re-read them recently and it seemed one long love note for Islam and he slammed the Jews by having them sell out the BeneGesserit (Lucinda?) who carried the memories of an entire planet.

Oh yeah, nice butcher job by David Lynch, weirding modules???? Rain at the end. Beautiful sets though.
I saw the Director's cut and it had more of the book but Lynch is just plain weird. "I want to spit just once on the Lady Jessica..."

He also insisted that the gas Duke Leto exhaled to try to kill the Baron be a certain color of yellow. He even talked Jurgen Prochnow into having a tube inserted through his cheek to get the desired effect. Luckily, I think the studio said no. For people that think Lynch is a genius I have one word, Eraserhead.

[Paul Atreides]

I think that, for a lot of people, it is as you said, in that the characters are flawed people. We are used to reading of people who are bigger than life. There is nothing wrong with the bigger than life characters. But, there is a deeper psychology to Paul's character. I didn't catch it in the first reading.

[Paul Atreides]

The Lynch version of Dune is okay, but he made a little too much like Twin Peaks in space. I like the miniseries better. I'm not one for grandiose performances in science fiction.

As for Frank Herbert, I didn't get the sense that he was trying to glorify Islam.

[Sentis]

Actually it was Ellison who on his first meeting with Asimov walked up to him and said "Your not so big". In fact Asimov and Heinlein met and worked together during WW2 on a project that Heinlein described as development of a type of plexiglas. (Who knows what it actually was as he said very little else when asked about the project). Heinlein and Asimov had been close friends until sometime in the sixties (I think, I don't have the info in front of me this moment) when Heinlein abandoned the Democratic party. Asimov saw Heinlein's political change as an abandonment of the future and Heinlein saw it as the democratic party abandoning him rather he abandoning it as he saw the roots of socialism creeping in and Heinlein was a vocal foe of socialism and communism in any form.


In fact Heinlein's literary editor claims Heinlein coined the word Scifi. (I think another science fiction writer claims he did it too). But the editor said Heinlein only used it in personal correspondence and not openly in public forums.

[Paul Atreides]

BTW, if you have any questions to ask, during your reading, please don't hesitate to call on me. :-)

[Brookhaven]

Uhh, that's a little much. Herbert's pretty darn good, but is the top of the second tier. Dune was a very good series but he tends to get pedantic as the series wears on.

I agree as far as Herbert's non-Dune work, and the Dune books after the first three.

The first three Dune books are really in a league of their own. The first Dune book has been voted best SF book ever in just about every poll I have seen in the last 30 years. Books 2 and 3 aren't far behind quality wise.

[Xenalyte]

Y'know, I might just take you up on that. It might save me much hassle, having a knowledgeable Dune aficionado at hand.

Thanks for the offer!

[Paul Atreides]

I enjoyed the cast, for the most part, from the movie as well. My main problem with the movie was some of the choices that Lynch made, as well as his directing it in such a surreal style. Some parts were just flat out corny (the Baron flying into a worm's mouth? give me a break!), while others were irritating (those Weirding Modules!). Plus, the book made several mentions of Jessica's bronze hair, so what does Lynch do? Make her bald (why is it when people in the future advance to a higher level, they go bald?). I prefer the miniseries, which is not without its flaws. I'll have to hold my nose when Saranwrap is on the screen for this new miniseries sequel. But, it is a small part.

[StAthanasiustheGreat]

Two questions:

I have read Dune, but not the other books.
1. Didn't Duncan Idaho get killed in the Dune miniseries, so how is he back, or is that an interesting plot twist thing, so you can't tell me.
2. What is with the guy in the teasers body, he looks like he is covered in giant scabs, that seem to cover more and more of his body, again is this a giant plot twist.
If either are plot twists, pretend Like I never asked.

God Bless

[Lx]

Exactly, what was the deal with the weirding modules? I know he used it as a plot device to make Duke Leto appear to have a strong army so the emperor thought he needed to destroy him.

The real reason(s) were much more compelling, Paul possibly being the Kwisatch Haderach (sp?) one generation too soon and not under the Bene Gesserit's control. Plus the unmentioned reason for the Atreides and Harkonen feud; the reason was that a past Atreides had banned a past Harkonen for cowardice.

The spice must flow! The forms of kanly have been obeyed!

[DoctorMichael]

Dune is set over twenty thousand years in the future.

From DUNE, Appendix IV:
SHADDAM IV (10,134-10,202)

......8,000 years in the future.

I read it when I was 10 and still have my first edition paperback from ~1964.

[Paul Atreides]

Go to Appendix II: The Religion of Dune in the back of the book. Look under the heading Space Travel!.

It states that mankind had been exploring deep space for one hundred and ten centuries before the Butlerian Jihad.

The Butlerian Jihad began two hundred and one years before the establishment of the Guild.

The establishment of The Guild is the beginning of the Imperial calendar.

Thus...

110 x 100 = 11,000

Add 201 years

Add 10,191 years.

This equals 21,392 years.

[Paul Atreides]

I hate to say it but both are plot twists.

[Paul Atreides]

In the book, Duke Leto, was supposed to have trained an army which was almost as skilled as the dreaded Imperial Sardaukar. I have heard that Lynch could not adequately represent the Weirding Way performed by Paul and Jessica (special effects being what they were in the early 80s).

I look forward to the source of the A/H feud being represented in the prequel books!

[Lx]

Prequel books? This is the first I've heard of it. Who is writing them and when are they out?

Herbert left the chance for a hell of a sequel to Chapterhouse Dune by having Scytale with the embedded nulentropy capsule with all the collected cells in it. I've always wondered why no one took advantage of it.

You're right about the army, I'd forgotten all about it. As for the effects, the shields left a little to be desired as well.

[DoctorMichael]

Look under the heading Space Travel!...........equals 21,392 years.

You are right, sir! My mistake on new calendar alignment at the time of the Butlerian Jihad.

BTW.......I like the Landsradd site! Kudos.