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To: Dan Day; Ditto; SauronOfMordor; wirestripper
Your discussion of software glitches brings to mind an often-overlooked feature of software-implemented PID controllers that occasionally is overlooked in testing. Those familiar with control theory will understand the phenomenon of integrator wind-up. Basically a very large error signal is generated and that causes the integral of E to be even larger. It is absolutely essential that there be some hard-coded feature to limit error correction under these conditions, preferably with backups, like redundant code segments and/or hardware limits. So certainly some desk-checking of the code would be a first step.

People will say, but, gee, those systems had to be checked out, both in simulations and actual tests. Well, sure, as best we can set up test conditions. But say something happened on this re-entry that triggered a portion of the controller that had heretofore gone untested. It could be any minor thing, misalignment on re-entry, a few degrees of trim and yaw not fully corrected, whatever. If those PID limits failed or were never implemented, it doesn't take much to drive the system into saturation and instability.

103 posted on 02/06/2003 2:10:49 PM PST by chimera
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To: chimera
it doesn't take much to drive the system into saturation and instability

Yup, I have seen it many times. It usually resulted in a 99 code and total failure as well as loss of data and program lock up.

104 posted on 02/06/2003 2:15:16 PM PST by Cold Heat
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To: chimera
But say something happened on this re-entry that triggered a portion of the controller that had heretofore gone untested.

Theoretically possible I'd guess, but I would be looking elsewhere before I'd go there. I too have seen software problems appear that no one had considered before. Never a 'fatal flaw' but stuff that should not have happened. But these are on systems that haven't been exposed to the intensive V&V that NASA uses. Few if any companies have the money, manpower or luxury of time to devote to the intense simulation regime that NASA uses. That software has been through the wringer for 20 years and it just seems that if a fatal flaw were there, it would have been spotted long ago. Mechanical devices on the other hand can test perfectly today and go bad tomorrow.

108 posted on 02/06/2003 3:00:21 PM PST by Ditto
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