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It's not about Iraq, it's about these two countries trying to build a new Euro Superpower with the French and Germans (and as far as France is concerned, ultimately just them) in control.

Thank you for the link.

A French-German alliance within the EU does not necessarily make these two countries OUR enemies. It does seem though that we are having a polarizing effect in Europe. As noted up thread, Germany has supported us in Afghanistan, and it was a French newspaper that expressed support for the US following 9/11 with the headline "We Are All Americans". It seems that we could well be at a turning point not only in our relationship with France and Germany, but in their relationship to the rest of Europe. I would rather see a statesman working to bring them into the fold than Rumsfeld widening the rift.

I agree, There is only one problem, In Germany and France there are no visible "Statesmen". Throughout history. courageous statesmen emerge at the most desperate times. In good times most leaders are well fed and satisfied with the status quo. If those two countries continue on their present course, we may see some statesmen (or women) emerge soon. Their socialist system is about to collapse. I always said the worst thing that ever happened to Germany was "the Wirtschftswunder". It made people lazy and complacent. Now they don't want to or know how to make sacrifices to change their situation.

"It does seem though that we are having a polarizing effect in Europe."

I don't believe this to be the case. The actions of the French and the Germans started the polarizing effect, and the other members of the EU are none too pleased by thier power play.

Were Rumsfeld's comments about "Old Europe" and his listing Germany with Cuba and Libya done on purpose? Sure they were! And well thought out, as it informs the REST of the EU and Nato members, that we are on thier side in this power struggle. The EU nations don't want France and Germany ruling over them.

You should be more concerned if Powell (The statesman, good cop) starts making these kinds of comments. Rumsfeld has one job only. Execute the war.

Regards