Rumsfeld Puts Germany On the Same Level as Libya und Cuba

Yahoo Germany ^ | February 6, 2003 | Reuters

[Michael81Dus]

Correct, Lucy. Don´t forget that German special troops fight along with yours in the hills of Afghanistan, that Germany has the largest contingent of the ISAF, that German Navy is on patrol at Somali coast line, that German soldiers guard US bases in Germany, that German ABC defensive specialists protect US bases in Kuwait...

Germany is obviously an ally, but its government and people have problems with the war against Iraq. That doesn´t mean a breach of the friendship between our nations.

[McGavin999]

So, you think it's quite alright for Germany and France to hurl insults at us, but we should be polite and not speak the truth because we might hurt their feelings? Get real.

Rumsfeld is telling it like it is. The only reason these people have gotten away with their contempt for the US is because we've allowed it. Now it's time for it to stop. We PAID for their economy, after they slaughtered millions, and hundreds of thousands of good Americans died. They repay us buy not only deserting us when we have a direct threat against us, they carry on publically about how arrogant we are. Rumsfeld is reminding them just how insignificant they are.

Go take lucy to her soccar game lucysmom, you don't belong here with the adults discussing world affairs. Don't forget to watch Oprah today, I think she's discussing fashionable ways to wear biosuits so you won't feel so bad when we're under attack.

[lucysmom]

Our military presence IN Germany is larger than their military.

And my daddy is bigger than your daddy.

Its not encouraging German militarism I worry about, its thoughtlessly assigning potential allies to the enemy camp. Its possible to bully someone into compliance, but not friendship.

[Steel Wolf]

Linking Germany with Cuba and Libya is an obvious insult, just like telling a man his wife is ugly even if its the truth.

I'd put it more like this:

'Linking Germany with Cuba and Libya is an obvious insult, just like telling a man his friends are criminals even if its the truth.'

Telling Germany that they are no longer welcome in our house because they have lowered themselves to run with gangbanging thugs is not wrong. By their own actions they have chosen to side with the wrong team. We can always welcome them back into the fold later, but we would be foolish to pretend that everything is ok. The point MUST be made that we do not condone their behavior, or their friends.

If they prefer the company, attitudes, politics, and business of third world dictators to ours, let them go.

[MamaLucci]

Rumsfeld is not a diplomat that has to parse every damn word he says, he is the Sec. of Defense, and I for one am happy to see him call a spade a spade.
Germany and France may be a lot of things, but American allies they are NOT

[cinFLA]

Its possible to bully someone into compliance, but not friendship.

Oh? So Germany was ever our friend? Remember WWI and WWII?

[lucysmom]

Rumsfeld is telling it like it is. The only reason these people have gotten away with their contempt for the US is because we've allowed it. Now it's time for it to stop. We PAID for their economy, after they slaughtered millions, and hundreds of thousands of good Americans died. They repay us buy not only deserting us when we have a direct threat against us, they carry on publically about how arrogant we are. Rumsfeld is reminding them just how insignificant they are.

Michael said it well

Don´t forget that German special troops fight along with yours in the hills of Afghanistan, that Germany has the largest contingent of the ISAF, that German Navy is on patrol at Somali coast line, that German soldiers guard US bases in Germany, that German ABC defensive specialists protect US bases in Kuwait...

Germany is obviously an ally, but its government and people have problems with the war against Iraq. That doesn´t mean a breach of the friendship between our nations.

McGavin's closing remarks

Go take lucy to her soccar game lucysmom, you don't belong here with the adults discussing world affairs. Don't forget to watch Oprah today, I think she's discussing fashionable ways to wear biosuits so you won't feel so bad when we're under attack.

I would rather discuss issues than hurl insults back at you.

[justshutupandtakeit]

Unfortunately, there are large numbers of Germans who have no idea of the real situation in the Middle East and even speak out in admiration of the murderous Arfat and his killers. Rumsfeld's words are true and if that is a problem so be it.

Those Germans who care about freedom and have a clear view of the world are our friends. Those are the only ones I care about. When parades in Germany had floats ridiculing our pseudo-President, Clinton, they were speaking the truth and no patriotic American was in the slightest bit upset by them. We said "exactly right."

[americanbychoice]

I find no fault with his statement. After all it was the German government who started all this, headed by a narcissist, who calls himself "Chancellor". He is not a Politician or a Diplomat. He only calls himself one and occasionally plays one on Television.

[cynicom]

If you are saying Rumsfeld does not wear silk gloves and kneepads as a diplomat, you are quite right. Remember Neville tried that approach in the 1930s, it was judged by history to have been a failure. Most of us do not want another failure.

[Northeast]

There's more going on With Germany and France than meets the eye. It's not about Iraq at all. It's about an internal power struggle in the EU. France and Germany are basically trying to Hijack the EU and create a new superpower.

Don't believe me? Try this Google search on Franco-German Alliance and read a few of the news articles that come up. You may be surprised.

Here is a snippet from the 2/10 Business week article, The Franco-German Alliance That's Splitting the EU:

Europeans left out in the cold by the Franco-German alliance are rushing to reinforce their ties with Washington. Berlusconi, a staunch U.S. supporter, is heading for talks in Washington on Jan. 30, to be followed by Britain's Tony Blair. Formerly communist Poland, invited to join the EU in 2004, is also backing Washington. "We're far closer to the Americans on [Iraq] than to the Germans and French," says former Defense Minister Janusz Onyszkiewicz, now with Warsaw's Center for International Relations. "If you start taking a head count," says a Bush Administration official, "Europe is not against us."

It's not about Iraq, it's about these two countries trying to build a new Euro Superpower with the French and Germans (and as far as France is concerned, ultimately just them) in control.

Regards

[Michael81Dus]

So you care about me!?
Uhm, I think both sides are failing to bring peace to MidEast- Sharons way isn´t right because he punish all Palestinians instead of rewarding those who are peaceful. But that´s another topic.

[Michael81Dus]

Wrong, our military has a numnber of 290.000, your troops here count 75.000. So you had maths in school? :-)

[americanbychoice]

well, Michael, apparently the German gevernment is good at dishing it out, but not good at taking it. Have you hears our president talk in those terms about Schroeder? Even last month in Hessen the SPD, desperate at winning said "We will not click our heels for Bush". You believe that that wasn't understood by America? Clicking your heels is something the German Military was used to during WW2. Does that mean they meant to equate Bush with Hitler, I don't think so, however parallels could be drawn. Have you heard anything from Washington in response? NO.
The shift is definately very apparent. The "Old Europe" of France and Germany whose centrist positions can only be seen as an attempt to take over Europe peacefully will not be tolerated by the other European countries. There is too much resentment. It will weaken the EU, because of mistrust toward the collaboration between "D" and "F".
I predict that Nato will be dissolved and new partnerships will be forged. A first sign of things to come was evident today. Krauss-Maffey was not considered as partner to develop and build our new Tank. The first in many things to come. Thank Schroeder, who in his wisdom (?) has chosen to destroy our relationship. Timing with France could not have been worse. He never considered the economic consequences of his actions. Again, you the people will have to pay for his mistakes.
All there is is the call for Dialogue between Friends, however your side will continue to slam us. Even today, the German Government is upset that the U.S. Government is advising Americans to avoid Munich this weekend even though your own police expects violence. You have become a nation of complainers, soft and ( oh my god, I am going to offend someone now) lazy.

[Michael81Dus]

I fear to say it, but.... except of your prediction regarding NATOs future, ... you´re right. *shudder*

But, and that´s my hope, it will be better once we have a new Chancellor, and your government knows that, too. Bush can and will make differences - and he must have recognized the attitude of the CDU/CSU, too.

Rumsfeld is travelling to Munich- and today he compared us with Lybia and Cuba. Well, let´s see.

[americanbychoice]

He just said there were 3-4 countries opposing any resolution. Of them it is Lybia, Germany and Cuba. It is a correct statement. Your Chancellor said that no matter what we find, Germany will not helpin the war or after it. I wonder, how many Germans would be prepared to defend their own country if it was attacked? I really would like to see that poll. I bet most of them would answer " Let us lead meaningful discussions with our enemies"?

[lucysmom]

It's not about Iraq, it's about these two countries trying to build a new Euro Superpower with the French and Germans (and as far as France is concerned, ultimately just them) in control.

Thank you for the link.

A French-German alliance within the EU does not necessarily make these two countries OUR enemies. It does seem though that we are having a polarizing effect in Europe. As noted up thread, Germany has supported us in Afghanistan, and it was a French newspaper that expressed support for the US following 9/11 with the headline "We Are All Americans". It seems that we could well be at a turning point not only in our relationship with France and Germany, but in their relationship to the rest of Europe. I would rather see a statesman working to bring them into the fold than Rumsfeld widening the rift.

[An.American.Expatriate]

Micheal,

Rumsfield did not compare! He stated that 3 countries would "do nothing at all" (no troops, no funds etc...) and they were Germany, Cuba and Libya.

Statements of facts should not be construed to be insults. NOw if he had said your government were no better than ... This WOULD be and insult and you could justifiable get mad about it.

[cinFLA]

Wrong, our military has a numnber of 290.000, your troops here count 75.000. So you had maths in school? :-)

I was referring to a combat ready military; not a uniformed peace corp. :-)

[americanbychoice]

I agree, There is only one problem, In Germany and France there are no visible "Statesmen". Throughout history. courageous statesmen emerge at the most desperate times. In good times most leaders are well fed and satisfied with the status quo. If those two countries continue on their present course, we may see some statesmen (or women) emerge soon. Their socialist system is about to collapse. I always said the worst thing that ever happened to Germany was "the Wirtschftswunder". It made people lazy and complacent. Now they don't want to or know how to make sacrifices to change their situation.