FOAM HAS PLAGUED NASA FOR 5 YEARS

Mercury News ^

[fooman]

NASA has asked that tests involving freon free foam be witheld. What are they hiding?

Article shows a NASA engineer noting the difficulties in creating the same characteristics.

[TLBSHOW]

What a team of freepers we have here and even a write up in WSJ. As FReerepublic freepers broke this story.

Don't mess with FReepers! LOL

[Carry_Okie]

Yup. I see what you mean.

[TLBSHOW]

Dinners ready and then on to listen to Radio-FR....

[Jael]

This really deserves it's own thread. Of course, expect for those who don't care about the seven who died to bash you for even posting this.

[isthisnickcool]

In 1999, the Southwest Research Institute, a non-profit laboratory in San Antonio, Texas, fired insulating foam fragments from a compressed-gas gun into thermal tiles and recorded the results with digital cameras. After the Columbia crash, NASA asked the institute not to release those results. The space agency also has tested the foam in wind tunnels and aboard a research jet."

Yep, here is the gun. I'd like to see some more data on who at NASA asked them not to release the report. And why. It's going to be released at some point. I didn't like the commentary in the heading when this thread started because I've seen no indication of NASA hiding data plus it did not match the actual articles heading.

If they try to keep the report private I'll certainly change my tune.

[aristeides]

Of course, expect for those who don't care about the seven who died to bash you for even posting this.

Believe it or not, they even have the gall to claim that discussing these things is disrespectful to the dead. Imagine. It's here on this thread.

[Jael]

What do you object to? Your values are such that you would let these seven people die in vain?

They deserve the truth to be told. Anyone who objects in order to cover for bad choices made at NASA needs a huge reality check.

Those seven people are far more important than anything else.

[fooman]

Bureaucrats protecting their jobs like they did with o ring event.

There is a book, Decision Traps, which uses the O-ring incident as a case study in how a decision process can be flawed.

We love NASA and want to see the hard working engineer re-instated and move on to the X43 and beyond.

[Jael]

Post a memorandum detailing problems that delayed previous shuttle flights as "proof" that NASA knew Columbia was going to blow up;

How could they of known it was going to happen? That's stupid. They would of never sent the Shuttle up knowing that.

But certain facts remain. The foam was a problem, they knew it was a problem and NASA has asked the lab that did some of the testing to withhold those results. Anyone who doesn't want the truth to be reported does not honor the men and women who died.

[fooman]

Right on 197

[Jael]

"In 1999, the Southwest Research Institute, a non-profit laboratory in San Antonio, Texas, fired insulating foam fragments from a compressed-gas gun into thermal tiles and recorded the results with digital cameras. After the Columbia crash, NASA asked the institute not to release those results."

[fooman]

Thanks for keeping an open mind. The witholding part is the new news as far as I can see in the Mercury News.

[fooman]

BTW good find the pic showing the gun.

[Ramtek57]

Ok NASA, its time to fix the foam problem. We don't need anything striking the shuttle at liftoff.

[HairOfTheDog]

NASA has BIG incentives to cover up if it turns out that PC foam killed these seven astros....

WHY?

Oh, liability, cuts to their budget, no promotions, maybe firings. Just for starters.

Nope.... That isn't good enough. If you are going to accuse them of this big cover up conspiracy, then you are gonna have to give me more motive than hiding that "environmental foam" is to blame. It doesn't even make sense.

I think it is a little bit convenient that this little environmental issue has come up. I think it dovetails nicely, or should, with the agenda of many here.

So they had to get rid of freon and develop foam that didn't use it. You now think that might have caused a wreck. Think that through.

That lets NASA off the hook does it not? - The enviro-wackos made them do it. It's their fault, NASA is the victim.

In your zeal to find this conspiracy NASA must be in, I think you are a little too eager to point and shout because you heard the word "environmentally friendly". Only trouble is, you are shooting without regard to whether there would be any reason at all to cover up the environmental foam as the cause of the accident, even if it turns out to be. And even if it did cause the accident. It was not the fact that it was environmentally friendly that killed people, it would be because it failed to work.

[Jael]

They seem to have some emotional problems. I suspect that they tie a huge part of their identy into being what they assume are super freepers.

In reality, a good freeper always wants to the truth to be told, no matter what.

[Jael]

The article is correct. NASA has been asked that same question live and said the same. So what's your problem? The article says what he said it says. Deal.

[isthisnickcool]

Thanks for keeping an open mind.

I know several astronauts and numerous people that work at JSC. I've been at JSC many times and have been in all the mockups. I was there one day when Glenn was there. Who, by the way, I'll never forgive because he bumped someone else from their ride so he could feed his ego.

When I was young I knew Chris Kraft. A mans man and a straight up guy. Sometimes I go to Carlos's Beer Garden on HWY. 3 and listen to the guys that did Apollo and the early shuttle work talk. I've never met any of those engineers that would have put up with some of the things people have talked about after this accident. Hiding things, telling lies, etc.

Most of the current taggers I know would be raising hell right now if they thought NASA was trying to sweep something under the rug. And they would have had fits if they knew the shuttle was going to have a catastrophic event and they did not tell the crew. Many of them are so smart they would just throw their pocket protectors down and walk out the door because they would have another job the next day.

It's going to take a LOT more than what I have seen to make me think any of the people I have met would hide the truth. Keep in mind I'm talking about the taggers, not the NASA suits. They don't have suits like Chris Kraft at NASA anymore.

[mrmargaritaville]

The foam that is used on the shuttle fuel tanks is a two component spray applied polyurethane foam-most likeley the denisty is 1.5#-1.75#\cu.ft. In the late '80s an international "treaty" was drafted and signed by most if not all developed nations. This "treaty" was called "The Montreal Protocol" the Montreal Protocol called for the world wise phase out and eventual ban of cholorofluorocarbons cfcs-Freon-R11 and R12. The "next generation" blowing agents for foam insulation were HCFC-halogenated choloroflouorcarbons, these were chemicals that are reported to have approximately 1% of the ozone depleting capablilites of CFCS. HCFCs are also to be phased out and banned by the Montreal Protocol-target date was 1/1/03 but the Bush EPA pushed it back to 1/1/04. The foam used on the shuttles fuel tanks was most likely formualted using an HCFC blowing agent. HCFCs blown product is virtually identical in every way to CFC blown product and in fact some of the properties of the HCFC blown product are better than the CFC blown products. So the fact that the product is more "enviormentally freindly" due to new blowing agent technology probably did NOT contribute to the delamiation of the foam from vessel. HOWEVER if the foam that was applied to the fuel tank was not HCFC but rather the third generation of blowing agent-well then it may well have been a problem. If someone made the decision not to use an HCFC blown foam, because it is not as enviornmentally freindly as the "new" next generation (mandated for use after 1/1/04) then the foam delaminating could be directly tied to the "enviornmentally friendly" blowing agent. NASA or their contractor may have used the products slated to replace HCFCs-the formulations based on the HCFC replacements are having some problems matching the performance of HCFCs.

[Jael]

My opinion is this, I don't think they actually believed that what happened could of happened. I'm not looking for someone to blame for this. But I do believe that the trouble they are having in the press conference admitting what they did know and when is causing a bad situation to get even worse. And the leaked memo is just adding fuel to the fire.