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To: Non-Sequitur
You condemn Lincoln for his views on the races and you believe Douglas was the better choice?

No. I condemn those who claim that The Lincoln was some champion of modern equality and civil rights. The Lincoln was very much a racist and you can infer into that what you like. Personally, I consider it a reflection of a dominant view in his own time. But others here, including the Claremonsters and Wlat will not even concede that The Lincoln practiced racism not unlike those who existed in his own time. They will not concede this because doing so means they have to admit a flaw of their false god. That is historical dishonesty at its worst.

His proposed 13th Amendment stripped Congress of any power to regulate slavery in the territories, although it would have allowed states to decide if they would be slave or not.

Don't you mean The Lincoln's proposed and passed 13th amendment? Cause it stripped Congress of any interference with the "domestic institutions" of any state, including slavery.

His proposed 14th Amendment would have denied blacks the right to vote or hold office

The Lincoln promoted exactly that view in his famous debate speeches.

and would have required that the government obtain land in Africa for the purpose of sending any black person a state wished to see sent there, at government expense.

Are you sure you are not discussing The Lincoln? Cause he set up an office in his administration to do exactly that. He even tried to contract with a businessman in Haiti to send them there, though the contract later fell through.

It would have also prevented Congress from ever passing any laws limiting slavery where they had jurisdiction or any amendment that limited slavery in any way.

In other words, The Lincoln's first 13th amendment.

222 posted on 02/06/2003 11:24:59 AM PST by GOPcapitalist
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To: GOPcapitalist
Don't you mean The Lincoln's proposed and passed 13th amendment? Cause it stripped Congress of any interference with the "domestic institutions" of any state, including slavery.

No, I'm talking about the 13th Amendment proposed by Douglas in his compromise proposal:

"Section 1. Congress shall make no law in respect to slavery or servitude in any Territory of the United States, and the status of each Territory in respect to servitude, as the same now exists by law, shall remain unchanged until the Territory, with such boundaries as Congress may prescribe, shall have a population of fifty thousand white inhabitants, when the white male citizens thereof over the age of twenty-one years may proceed to form a constitution and government for themselves and exercise all the rights of self-government consistent with the Constitution of the United States; and when such new States shall acquire the requisite population for a member of Congress, according to the then federal ratio of representation, it shall be admitted into the Union on an equal footing with the original States, with or without slavery, as the constitution of such new States shall provide at the time of admission; and in the meantime such new States shall be entitled to one delegate to the Senate, to be chosen by the legislature, and one delegate to the House of Representatives, to be chosed by the people having the qualifications requisite for electors of the most numerous branch of the legislature; and said delegates shall have all the rights and prvileges of senators and representatives respectively, except that of voting."

It was his proposed 14th Amendment which prevented blacks from voting or from Congress of ever passing an amendment interfering with it:

"Section 1. The elective franchise and the right to hold office, whether federal, State, territorial, or municipal, shall not be exercised by persons of the African race, in whole or in part.
Section 2. The United States shall have power to acquire, from time to time, districts of country in Africa and South America, for the colonization, at expense of the federal Treasury, of such free negroes and mulattoes as the several States may wish to have removed from their limits, and from the District of Columbia, and such other places as may be under the jurisdication of Congress.
Section 3. Congress shall have no power to abolish slavery in the places under its jurisdiction and situate within the limits of States that permit the holding of slaves.
Section 4. Congress shall have no power to abolish slavery within the District of Columbia, so long as it exists in the adjoining States of Virginia and Maryland, or either, nor without the consent of the inhabitants, nor without just compensation first made to such owners of slaves as do not consent to such abolishment. Nor shall Congress at any time prohibit officers of the federal government, or members of Congress, whose duties require them to be in said District, from bringing with them their slaves and holding them as such during the time their duties may require them to remain there, and afterwards taking them from the District.
Section 5. Congress shall have no power to prohibit or hinder the transportation of slaves from one State to another, or to a Territory in which slaves are permitted by law to be held, whether such transportation be by land, navigable rivers, or by sea; but the African slave trade shall be forever suppressed, and it shall be the duty of Congress to make such laws as shall be necessary and effectual to prevent the migration or importation of slaves or persons owing serivces or labor, into the United States from any foreign country, place, or jurisdiction whatever.
Section 6. In addition to the provision of the third paragraph of the second section of the fourth article of the Constitution, Congress shall have power to provide by law, and it shall be its duty so to provide, that the United States shall pay to the owner who shall apply for it, the full value of his fugitive slave, in all cases when the marshall, or other officer whose duty it was to arrest said fugitive, was prevented from so doing by violence or intimidation; or when, after arrest, said fugitive was rescued by force, and the owner thereby prevented and obstructed in the pursuit of his remedy for the recovery of his fugitive slave, under the said clause of the Constitution, and the laws made in pursuance thereof; and in all such cases, when the United States shall pay for such fugitives, they shall have the right, in their own name, to sue the county in which said violence, intimidation, or rescue was committed, and to recover from it, with interest and damages, the amount paid by them for said fugitive slave.
Section 7. No future amendment of the Constitution shall effect this and the preceding article; nor the third paragraph of the second section of the first article of the Constitution; nor the third paragraph of the second section of the fourth article of said Constitution; and no amendment shall be made to the Constitution which will authorize or give to Congress any power to abolish or interfere with slavery in any of the States by whose laws it is or may be allowed or sanctioned."

In every respect Douglas endorsed policies which were harsher and more restrictive. Those are the amendment that Douglas proposed and which you, apparently, prefer since they came from what you consider the better man.

232 posted on 02/06/2003 11:54:33 AM PST by Non-Sequitur
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