That, is a lie. And what's more, waltrot, YOU KNOW IT IS A LIE. The Lincoln deliberately separated himself from those who wanted full rights for blacks. He made it clear he did not advocate full rights for blacks. His last speech is testimony to that fact:
"It is also unsatisfactory to some that the elective franchise is not given to the colored man. I would myself prefer that it were now conferred on the very intelligent, and on those who serve our cause as soldiers."
He very clearly separates himself from those who wanted full rights for blacks and lays down his exclusionary conditions. He would only give rights to "the very intelligent" ones, and to "those who serve our cause as soldiers". What of the rest? Also, it seems apparent from his exclusionary criteria that even the children of the ones that pleased him enough to recieve rights would have to pass one of his "black intelligence" tests, or serve in the military to obtain rights for themselves. Lurkers should note that Lincoln's political opponents quickly outlawed Abe's exclusionary and prejudiced ideas regarding black suffrage, and ensured that blacks were given full rights, against the wishes and plans of Lincoln.
Just out of curiosity what would you have had Lincoln say? Had you bothered to include the complete quote, you would see that he was addressing Black sufferage in Louisiana. A state where the year before there had been no Black sufferage of any kind, where 95% of the black population had been slaves the year before. Lincoln first suggested black voting rights in a letter to the governor of Louisiana in March 1864. Who else was suggesting that? Were the good people of Louisiana or any other southern state talking about sufferage for both races? You claim that President Lincoln was separating himself from those who wanted full rights for blacks. Well, who were they? How were they hindered by President Lincoln's actions? Where are those who were pushing for more than the President was willing to give?
Sufferage is also a state issue. President Lincoln could not by executive order give blacks the vote throughout the country. Given what he had to work with why is his position surprising? We know what the attitude was towards free blacks in the south before the war, and we saw what happened after the war. Sufferage for some was a first step, a step that nobody but President Lincoln was willing to fight for. But that obviously escaped you.
That, is a lie. And what's more, waltrot, YOU KNOW IT IS A LIE.
I don't know any such thing. I also don't know why you want to belittle Lincoln.
James McPherson says that Lincoln's position on race in the 1850's was at variance with perhaps 2/3 of the voters in Illinois. He still made a strong stand.
"I think the authors of that notable instrument [the Do f I] intended to include all men, but they did not mean to declare all men equal in all respects. They did not mean to say all men were equal in color, size, intellect, moral development, or social capacity. They defined with tolerable distinctness in what they did consider all men created equal,—equal in certain inalienable rights, among which are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. This they said, and this they meant. They did not mean to assert the obvious untruth that all were then actually enjoying that equality, or yet that they were about to confer it immediately upon them. In fact, they had no power to confer such a boon. They meant simply to declare the right, so that the enforcement of it might follow as fast as circumstances should permit.
They meant to set up a standard maxim for free society which should be familiar to all,—constantly looked to, constantly labored for, and even, though never perfectly attained, constantly approximated, and thereby constantly spreading and deepening its influence, and augmenting the happiness and value of life to all people, of all colors, everywhere.
And when this new principle—this new proposition that no human being ever thought of three years ago—is brought forward, I combat it as having an evil tendency, if not an evil design. I combat it as having a tendency to dehumanize the negro, to take away from him the right of ever striving to be a man. I combat it as being one of the thousand things constantly done in these days to prepare the public mind to make property, and nothing but property, of the negro in all the States of this Union."
-- speech at Alton, Il 1858.
Now, the thing is that most people north or south were still very opposed to black equality. If the 179,000 black Union soldiers were given the vote, that was a foot in the door -- that is working towards full rights for blacks.
I don't see how an honest person could see it in any other terms.
Walt
It's hard to believe you really have an issue with Lincoln on the basis you suggest.
I think it a lot more likely you take exception to him even saying blacks should be free to enjoy the fruits of their own labor at all. And maybe with him saying they had an equal share in the promise in the Declaration of Independence.
In 1858, Lincoln said he was not in favor of making voters or jurors of blacks. In 1865 he clearly had changed this stance and was willing to see voting right conferred on the very intelligent and the soldiers. He had been directing that as many blacks as possible be recruited into the military for two years prior, as these letters indicate:
Private General Hunter
Executive Mansion
Washington D.C. April 1, 1863
My dear Sir:
I am glad to see the accounts of your colored force at Jacksonville, Florida. I see the enemy are driving at them fiercely, as is to be expected. It is mportant to the enemy that such a force shall not take shape, and grow, and thrive, in the south; and in precisely the same proportion, it is important to us that it shall. Hence the utmost caution and viglilance is necessary on our part. The enemy will make extra efforts to destroy them; and we should do the same to perserve and increase them.
Yours truly
A. Lincoln
_________________________________________________________
Hon. Andrew Johnson
Executive Mansion,
My dear Sir:
Washington, March 26. 1863.
I am told you have at least thought of raising a negro military force. In my opinion the country now needs no specific thing so much as some man of your ability, and position, to go to this work. When I speak of your position, I mean that of an eminent citizen of a slave-state, and himself a slave- holder. The colored population is the great available and yet unavailed of, force for restoring the Union. The bare sight of fifty thousand armed, and drilled black soldiers on the banks of the Mississippi, would end the rebellion at once. And who doubts that we can present that sight, if we but take hold in earnest? If you have been thinking of it please do not dismiss the thought.
Yours truly
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hon Soc of War
Executive Mansion
Washington
July 21, 1863
My Dear Sir:
I desire that a renewed and vigorous effort be made to raise colored forces along the shores of the Missippi [sic]. Please consult the General-in-chief; and if it is perceived that any acceleration of the matter can be effected, let it be done. I think the evidence is nearly conclusive that Gen. Thomas is one of the best, if not the very best, instruments for this service.
Yours truly
Lincoln was, as he said, willing to adopt new views as soon as they were shown to be new views.
And the new view was that blacks had a right to full citizenship.
I guess I wonder also how any good-hearted person today would disturb the myth -- if it were a myth -- of Lincoln's good heart. Why strive so hard to pull down what the United States stands for -- equal justice and opportunity for all?
walt
He very clearly separates himself from those who wanted full rights for blacks and lays down his exclusionary conditions.
You're just like the Black Knight in "Monty Python and the Holy Grail".
You've no arms or legs. I suppose I could come close enough so that you could bite me.
Walt