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Observation on TPS damage on Orbiter
NASA photos
| 2-3-03
| BoneMccoy
Posted on 02/04/2003 1:34:19 AM PST by bonesmccoy
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To: wirestripper
You described the kid's film to a tee.
1,681
posted on
02/13/2003 11:00:25 PM PST
by
freepersup
(And this expectation will not disappoint us.)
To: Budge
You are kind to want to respond to as many comments as are directed to you. No need to- Eyes wide open on this end. I'll contribute what I can, while I can. Thanks-
1,682
posted on
02/13/2003 11:03:00 PM PST
by
freepersup
(And this expectation will not disappoint us.)
To: wirestripper; XBob; All
Here is the link to the video by the kids. I'm listening/watching it as I type. It's still there.
1,683
posted on
02/13/2003 11:04:39 PM PST
by
Budge
(God Bless FReepers!)
To: bonesmccoy
gravitational acceleration = 9.80665 m/s^2
1,684
posted on
02/13/2003 11:06:45 PM PST
by
bonesmccoy
(Defeat the terrorists... Vaccinate!)
To: wirestripper; freepersup; bonesmccoy
The kid watched and said....Look at that! Wow! Did you see that!
I think that's the one I have been looking for.
bones, how about looking for this one instead?
1,685
posted on
02/13/2003 11:11:36 PM PST
by
XBob
To: XBob; tubebender; All
I found some drawings, albeit old ones of attach points and have them bookmarked. I'll look for them in the morning and try to post them then.
1,686
posted on
02/13/2003 11:14:09 PM PST
by
Budge
(God Bless FReepers!)
To: XBob
Agreed, but if it is a tile, it may well have survived.
It would have floated with the air currents (because it is so light) and could be anywhere.
To: John Jamieson
I think it was Xbob who first thought there might have been two pieces of foam, each having a different impact point. I don't know who it was who had earlier first picked up on two different impacts.
1,688
posted on
02/13/2003 11:15:27 PM PST
by
Thud
To: Budge
budge - that is a jsp file, which I can't get to work, and it comes up as a non-playing real video player with a bunch of errors. what is a jsp file?
what are you using to view it, or download it.
1,689
posted on
02/13/2003 11:16:25 PM PST
by
XBob
To: bonesmccoy
The shuttle is crossing northern Arizona according to this time line and is under observation by the kids filming at Waputki NationalMonument.
east of Kaibito, Arizona
13:56:16 GMT
Hyd Sys 1 LMG
Uplk Actr Unlk Ln
Temp- Temp rise Rate Change from 0.7 F/min (nominal) to 3.9 F/min and increasing to LOS
H 220,778'
mach 21.28
east of Kaibito, Arizona
13:56:17
Sys 3 LMG Brake SW Vlv Ret
Line Temp (FWD)- Temp Rise Rate Change from 1.5 F/min to 8.8 F/min (not increasing) to LOS
H 220,711
mach 21.27
east of Kaibito, Arizona
13:56:22
LMG Brake Line Temp B Temp rise Rate Change from 2.1 F/min to 9.1 F/min increasing to LOS
H 220,374
mach 21.21
The above events are unfolding overhead as the kids continue filming from Waputki National Monument.
1,690
posted on
02/13/2003 11:19:24 PM PST
by
freepersup
(And this expectation will not disappoint us.)
To: XBob
Bob, could you get Budges link to work? I have the source files on my real player. It came from that TV site, however I cannot put it in a form that will work if sent or hyperlinked.
I did however enable the player to link to it and play it for my own enjoyment.
I hate RP and someday will post a rant to tell real network what I really think!!!!!!!!
To: freepersup
1644 - Most definitely the coup de grace...if that happened.
1,692
posted on
02/13/2003 11:23:05 PM PST
by
Budge
(God Bless FReepers!)
To: Budge; XBob
Bingo ! That's the kid's film- to match with the time line we are posting here tonight.
Scott and Chris Valentine (kids)
1,693
posted on
02/13/2003 11:24:04 PM PST
by
freepersup
(And this expectation will not disappoint us.)
To: freepersup
Yes, I put the video into my time line and came up with the same thing. (the brake hyd temp sensors)
I also considered the fact that the time on their VCR is probably as much as 60sec off.
Nobody syncs to GMT very often.
To: wirestripper; bonesmccoy; Budge; Thud
Agreed, but if it is a tile, it may well have survived.
It would have floated with the air currents (because it is so light) and could be anywhere.
that's possible, but they burned, otherwise we wouldn't have seen them.
The tiles are strange composition. Let me try to explain. Think of an old box of baking soda, which has absorbed moisture, and becomes a coherent clump, yet breaks apart easily. Think ofthe particle sizes of this clump to be much more grainy than baking soda, and more like particles of laundry detergent. Then think about them being very light in weight. They are not very coherent, these particles, without the coating on them, to hold them together. If you could see our local news here in Texas, they displayed numbers of pictures of them, which fell in the road, and were run over by cars, and were just crushed to powder.
What were the small flares? we were hearing about 'contrails' which people never saw on previous passes. Perhaps they were pieces of the aluminum 'glove/web', as it gradually disintigrated.
Some tiles did survive over texas, intact, but I think they had slowed substantially first, as they came loose in the breakup.
It's a good idea to look for them, what ever they were. and Bones, you idea is a good one, to figure out where to look.
1,695
posted on
02/13/2003 11:38:01 PM PST
by
XBob
To: bonesmccoy
All right Bones, I'll play, it would be interesting to know just far a lose tile would fly. Best we're going to be able to do is a swag, but let's give it a shot.
I suggest we start with a 6"X6"X3" tile tumbling. Density of most tiles is 9 lbs/cu/ft, 500 or so are 22 pounds per foot.
I'll create an excel spreadsheet to track 'em that allows us to change the initial conditions for altitude, velocity, size, and density. Let the tiles fall where they may. I would expect them all to reach the ground.
To: bonesmccoy
Below are the two final sensor readings from NASA, as the shuttle crosses northern Arizona and into New Mexico air space.
south of Shonto, Arizona
13:56:24 GMT
Left Upper Wing Skin Temp- Start of Off- Nominal Trend Temp Reading Trending Down potential sensor/wire damage
H 220,235
mach 21.17
southeast of Shonto, Arizona
13:56:30
1st Roll Reversal Initiation
H 219,820
mach 21.13
The shuttle passes out of range of the kids video camera and crosses into New Mexico. 23 seconds elapse before the next sensor reading provides NASA any kind of useful data.
east of Tohatchi, New Mexico
13:56:53 GMT
SYS 3 Left Main Gear Strut Actuator Temp Temp Rise rate Change from 1.7 F/min to 12.9 F/min (not increasing) to LOS
H 218,839
mach 20.80
The shuttle took 1:04 to cross out of Utah, across Arizona, and into New Mexico.
At approx. 13:56:02 GMT the shuttle sent data out, as it entered Arizona airspace. The last bit of data sent from the shuttle while in Arizona came at 13:56:30. That's 28 seconds of data that can be married up (sync.) to the kid's film that was taken from Waputki National Monument.
1,697
posted on
02/13/2003 11:40:54 PM PST
by
freepersup
(And this expectation will not disappoint us.)
To: bonesmccoy
I haven't done that type of math since high school/college. I will leave it to you younger guys and engineers.
If you want a cost analysis, I'm your man, but for this stuff, I leave it to the engineers.
1,698
posted on
02/13/2003 11:42:41 PM PST
by
XBob
To: John Jamieson
Hey, you're the expert!
I'm just trying to do some college Physics 101 (got yer' old green and yellow Halliday & Resnik book?)
GAG! My prof would be laughing if he saw me looking up those darn projectile equations!
Doing an analysis on the observation of the astronomers from Cal Tech. We can guess their position from the Cal Tech website:
http://www.ovro.caltech.edu/
The Owens Valley Radio Observatory (OVRO) is the largest university-operated radio observatory in the world. The observatory is located near Bishop, California, approximately 250 miles north of Los Angeles on the east side of the Sierra Nevada. For reference, its coordinates are 37°14'02" latitude, 118°16'56" longitude at 1222 meters above sea level.
1,699
posted on
02/13/2003 11:43:48 PM PST
by
bonesmccoy
(Defeat the terrorists... Vaccinate!)
To: freepersup
have you been able to locate where the kids were...where's the link to the article that described where they were standing.
1,700
posted on
02/13/2003 11:44:48 PM PST
by
bonesmccoy
(Defeat the terrorists... Vaccinate!)
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