BREAKING: NBC News finds Jan 30 NASA Memo showing serious concern about tile damage!

NBC News | February 3, 2003 | Jay Barbree

[Timesink]

Developing. Watch MSNBC for latest. Internal memo shows some engineers believe there was up to a 7 1/2-inch gash from the foam breakoff at launch. Memo was serious enough to go out to all NASA centers two days before disaster.

[TLBSHOW]

abort!

As I said it should never of lifted off to start with. Once it did well some kind of mission to get them back should of been #1 top mission. After they did see there was a problem. Nothing we can't do if we had tried. In America there is nothing we can't do if we had put the effort forth. Instead nothing was done and the mission went on playing with spiders and 7 people died.

[Redleg Duke]

"It looks like a faked picture to me."

Of course it is, Pappy, but don't ruin their day. They are having so much "fun" wringing their hands and excoriating NASA!

[cmak9]

Did anyone else see the FoxNews Channel report from a guy in Nevada that has video of the reentry...and there is something following the shuttle? I walked into the room at the very end of the report. There are two bright lights in a dark sky...suddenly, the one that is following looks as if it suffers an explosion and then you can see a contrail. Did anyone else see the report who can explain it to me?

The first bright light was Venus. It wasn't moving. The way they were replaying the video could have easily led you to believe it was though. The second light was the shuttle.

[TLBSHOW]

Then I wouldn't be me! :>)

[afuturegovernor]

I oppose the welfare state but I believe the United States space program is a worthy function of our government. It has advanced our military, our knowledge of how the universe works, and our everyday lives.

[Poohbah]

As I said it should never of lifted off to start with.

OK, so the all-knowing political analyst also dabbles as an aerospace consultant who knows in advance how every space shuttle flight is going to turn out...

Todd, are you sure you didn't get zapped by a Stupid Ray at a young and impressionable age?

[sharktrager]

How would they get the tiles to do the repair?

[Jael]

"NASA knew from the second day of Columbia's 16-day research mission that a piece of the insulating foam on the external fuel tank had peeled off just after liftoff and struck the left wing, possibly ripping off some of the tiles that keep the ship from burning up when it re-enters Earth's atmosphere." http://www.washtimes.com/national/20030203-87326768.htm

http://ltp.arc.nasa.gov/space/team/journals/katnik/sts87-12-23.html
"Damage numbering up to forty tiles is considered normal on each mission due to ice dropping off of the external tank (ET) and plume re-circulation causing this debris to impact with the tiles. But the extent of damage at the conclusion of this mission was not "normal."

The pattern of hits did not follow aerodynamic expectations, and the number, size and severity of hits were abnormal. Three hundred and eight hits were counted during the inspection, one-hundred and thirty two (132) were greater than one inch. Some of the hits measured fifteen (15) inches long with depths measuring up to one and one-half (1 1/2) inches. Considering that the depth of the tile is two (2) inches, a 75% penetration depth had been reached. Over one hundred (100) tiles have been removed from the Columbia because they were irreparable.

During the STS-87 mission, there was a change made on the
external tank. Because of NASA's goal to use environmentally
friendly products, a new method of "foaming" the external tank
had been used for this mission and the STS-86 mission. It is
suspected that large amounts of foam separated from the external
tank and impacted the orbiter. This caused significant damage to
the protective tiles of the orbiter."



http://www.arnold.af.mil/aedc/newsreleases/1999/99-041.htm
"According to NASA, during several previous Space Shuttle flights, including the shuttle launched Nov. 29, 1998, the shuttle external tank experienced a significant loss of foam from the intertank. The material lost caused damage to the thermal protection high-temperature tiles on the lower surface of the shuttle orbiter.

Although the AEDC Tunnel A tests did not replicate the in-flight failures, they did provide detailed measurements to better understand the flight environment and fundamental failure mode. From these tests, NASA determined the failure is caused principally by foam cell expansion due to external heating at approximately Mach 4 combined with pressure change and aerodynamic shear. Specialized miniature shear gages and other instrumentation were installed during the test to measure these forces."

[Mo1]

No comment .. LOL

[Fred Mertz]

Get a load of Poobah, self-appointed NASA eunuch.

[Jael]

"NASA knew from the second day of Columbia's 16-day research mission that a piece of the insulating foam on the external fuel tank had peeled off just after liftoff and struck the left wing, possibly ripping off some of the tiles that keep the ship from burning up when it re-enters Earth's atmosphere." http://www.washtimes.com/national/20030203-87326768.htm

http://ltp.arc.nasa.gov/space/team/journals/katnik/sts87-12-23.html
"Damage numbering up to forty tiles is considered normal on each mission due to ice dropping off of the external tank (ET) and plume re-circulation causing this debris to impact with the tiles. But the extent of damage at the conclusion of this mission was not "normal."

The pattern of hits did not follow aerodynamic expectations, and the number, size and severity of hits were abnormal. Three hundred and eight hits were counted during the inspection, one-hundred and thirty two (132) were greater than one inch. Some of the hits measured fifteen (15) inches long with depths measuring up to one and one-half (1 1/2) inches. Considering that the depth of the tile is two (2) inches, a 75% penetration depth had been reached. Over one hundred (100) tiles have been removed from the Columbia because they were irreparable.

During the STS-87 mission, there was a change made on the
external tank. Because of NASA's goal to use environmentally
friendly products, a new method of "foaming" the external tank
had been used for this mission and the STS-86 mission. It is
suspected that large amounts of foam separated from the external
tank and impacted the orbiter. This caused significant damage to
the protective tiles of the orbiter."



http://www.arnold.af.mil/aedc/newsreleases/1999/99-041.htm
"According to NASA, during several previous Space Shuttle flights, including the shuttle launched Nov. 29, 1998, the shuttle external tank experienced a significant loss of foam from the intertank. The material lost caused damage to the thermal protection high-temperature tiles on the lower surface of the shuttle orbiter.

Although the AEDC Tunnel A tests did not replicate the in-flight failures, they did provide detailed measurements to better understand the flight environment and fundamental failure mode. From these tests, NASA determined the failure is caused principally by foam cell expansion due to external heating at approximately Mach 4 combined with pressure change and aerodynamic shear. Specialized miniature shear gages and other instrumentation were installed during the test to measure these forces."

[mhking]

I've seen you insisting that the flight should not have taken off from Kennedy to begin with - are you suggesting that the damage to the orbiter occured prior to launch?

If not, then what would you have proposed?

Moreover, if so, what empirical evidence has been presented that supports this allegation (as I've seen nor heard nothing that would indicate that there was knowledge of a problem prior to the flight)?

[Dave S]

I drove the I-40 route from DC to CA after 9/11...I never passed through St. Louis.

We have our little branch of it here. We have four interstates that merge at that bridge (I-70, I-40, I-44, and I-55)I think 40 disappears in Illinois and becomes I-64 heading to Kentucky or Tennesee. Out here in St. Louis county though the road is highway 40 or I-40.

[TLBSHOW]

It's my gift from God! Now don't blow that up to mean something else, but like Rush I am here on loan! LOL

Really.......it's just my gift. Other than this gift I have no other! But I can see the truth in most matters within a short period of time from being told or seeing something or from reading something.

I guess you could say I got zapped but it wasn't at a young age.

[Howlin]

Of course it is, Pappy, but don't ruin their day.

LOL!

[Desdemona]

I think 40 disappears in Illinois and becomes I-64 heading to Kentucky or Tennesee. Out here in St. Louis county though the road is highway 40 or I-40.

US highway 40 and Interstate 64 are the same road through St. Louis. It was Highway 40 LONG before it was I-64, too. Interstate 40 doesn't come near here.

[Poohbah]

Really.......it's just my gift. Other than this gift I have no other! But I can see the truth in most matters within a short period of time from being told or seeing something or from reading something.

Ah, I see. You simply allow your hormones to do your thinking for you.

[Howlin]

Moreover, if so, what empirical evidence has been presented that supports this allegation

ROFLMAO......aren't you the dreamer.

[Mo1]

IMO .. they need to scrap that foam stuff and fast

[Poohbah]

Thank you...

My analogy stands--it's kinda like trying to arrange a rendevous between two cars on different east-west interstates when neither has the fuel to take a north-south route...