BREAKING: NBC News finds Jan 30 NASA Memo showing serious concern about tile damage!

NBC News | February 3, 2003 | Jay Barbree

[Timesink]

Developing. Watch MSNBC for latest. Internal memo shows some engineers believe there was up to a 7 1/2-inch gash from the foam breakoff at launch. Memo was serious enough to go out to all NASA centers two days before disaster.

[HairOfTheDog]

POINT IS THIS FLIGHT SHOULD NOT OF HAPPENED TO START WITH

Lots of calmer people disagree on whether we ever should have gone to space. And you are hysterical.

There is safety in never leaving home. But very little chance for absolute and complete amazement.

[need_a_screen_name]

They are out in the middle of SPACE .. it's not like they changing a tire on the side of the road

There is no Triple A in space

I'm not trying to play the blame game, but your response is even less well thought out than mine. You mean to tell me that you have never heard of space walks? Maybe in the future we can always have the equipment needed and personel trained to do space walks on board. It seems like some sort of composite mixture to fill in cracks could be devised to use in cases where we know there is tile damage. Then they could fill in cracks much like filling in dents in furniture with wood putty. A big bin of assorted tiles (that could also be cut to fit) to used as replacements could be stored in the cargo bin.

[Timesink]

Thats BS. They could have went to the ISS and waited for another shuttle to take them back.

No they couldn't! The Columbia was not equipped to dock with the ISS, and almost certainly didn't have enough fuel to get there even if they had docking ability.

[Desdemona]

They could have went to the ISS and waited for another shuttle to take them back

Pay attention:

1. Columbia doesn't dock with the ISS. It isn't fitted with the docking collar. As far as I know, only Atlantis, is capable. On toop of that, there is a crew limit. They only have so much space for seats.

2. They were in a lower orbit and didn't have the fuel to get up there.

3. There are no shuttles close to ready in the VAB. It takes about a month to prep one - minimum, 24 hours to get it from the VAB to either launch pad and then, it has to sit there for at least a week - I don't remember precisely why. That's SOP in the NASA world. We're not talking about a 747.

[YaYa123]

Thank God nobody watches MSNBC. Although if they did, they would see televison news reporting at it's worst.

And Matt Drudge gets criticized for not editing himself!!

[Kozak]

If there were serious concerns they should have left them in orbit until they were able to send up some kind of rescue vehicle, whether it be another shuttle or a russian caspule, whetever. The non-military people could have been evacuated. They could have squeezed them into the space station. There was no need to bring the shuttle back until they were convinced that it was safe.

Columbia couldn't reach the orbit of the ISS.
It would take multiple Soyuz capsules to evacuate the 7 man crew, I don't even know if they have one on the pad, it's not like starting the family car.
The shuttle can only stay powered up for so long in orbit, the fuel cells have a limited capacity.

Maybe we can make some kind of arrangement for a standby emergency evac vehicle in the future, but keeping an "alert" bird would be a very expensive proposition, remember this is the first time in 100 missions it maybe would have been needed.

Space is a dangerous place, pioneers have always had to accept some very real risks.

[Mamzelle]

re: 3. There are no shuttles close to ready in the VAB. It takes about a month to prep one - minimum, 24 hours to get it from the VAB to either launch pad and then, it has to sit there for at least a week - I don't remember precisely why. That's SOP in the NASA world. We're not talking about a 747.)))

Could the Russians have helped?

[bvw]

Of course that is possible. But pilots would fight for the chance to do it. We're talking a crew of two, two to save seven. Chance of double disaster -- according to the "low-bar" people running around here, that's 1 in 50. I'm a high-bar guy, but pratical. I'd say the risk is probably more like 1 in 20. Almost Russian Roulette. Still, if commanding, I'd ask for volunteers and send up the rescue mission.

And amigo, this isn't "Monday Morning Quarterbacking" -- we ARE the owners, the hands were lost on OUR ship. We have a duty.

[HairOfTheDog]

They probably would have tried to do a spacewalk and determine the damage. They would have liked to had somebody rescue them or head over to the space station and throw a rope over...

...Hell, anything is better than dying.

What, like following the advice of people who don't know *jack* about it? Dude.... You don't know anything about this.

[Fitzcarraldo]

Ignore the pests who bring up the "Monday Morning Quarterbracking" thing. Bad analogy.

Why? Because WE are the owners and GM's. WE MUST review what happened. It is our obligation as owners and general managers. In present cicumstance, given the risk to life, the loss of life of our employees -- it is a solemn and sacred duty

Heads should roll if the information about possible damage and dissenting opinions in the agency was quashed. Most of us only heard about the falling insulation problem one hour after Columbia's demise.

There could have been a tremendous amount of constructive support for mounting a rescue had the "owners of the country" been given the word.

[DonnerT]

Because Stupid! Thermal expansion and contraction would cause it to buckle and warp and it would be ripped off before it ever reached orbit.

[Dave S]

Then I think NASA should have informed the American public of their concerns and given us the opportunity to pray for that kind of divine intervention.

ROTFWL. Be serious.

[Mo1]

Maybe in the future we can always have the equipment needed and personel trained to do space walks on board. It seems like some sort of composite mixture to fill in cracks could be devised to use in cases where we know there is tile damage. Then they could fill in cracks much like filling in dents in furniture with wood putty. A big bin of assorted tiles (that could also be cut to fit) to used as replacements could be stored in the cargo bin.

In the future, yes maybe that is possible

But from what I have read .. And I am no expert in this area, far from it .. but what I can tell there would have been no way for this crew to have fixed those titles.

Remember this is space, it is very dangerous inside a shuttle, it is even more dangerous outside of it.

[Prince Charles]

Would it have been possible to lower the orbit of the ISS down to a point where Columbia could have gotten near it? I don't know myself, but it seems like a possibility.

[Freedom4US]

"If NASA believed there may have been a problem, then why didn't they have made a serious attempt to photograph its re-entry?"

This is what bothers me. The premeier space agency in the world is asking for hobbyists and amateurs to provide video and still photos of re-entry. WTF???

In any case, the crew should have been informed (they were afaik) and some sort of inspection should have been performed either by - remote camera, or EVA - _something_ - anything - other than playing roman candle over the western US and Texas. While no astronaut, I crewed thousands of hours on aircraft and when something ain't right, I was never afraid to speak out - sometimes forcefully - and it helped more than once.

"There's nothing they could have done about it, no repairs possible." - that's not good enough.

[Goodlife]

[TankerKC]

Is there a bio on Don Nelson somewhere so that we can all see what his qualifications are. What positions did he hold. I'm sure there are some janitors that have worked for NASA for 30 years, that doesn’t make them experts.

I’m not discounting what this guy is saying, but we need some background and context to evaluate what he is saying.

[Iwentsouth]

CAPE CANAVERAL, Feb. 3 — Two days before the Columbia disaster, a NASA engineering team sent an internal memo calculating a high probability that launch debris had caused a gash 7½ by 30 inches on the shuttle’s left wing, NBC’s Jay Barbree reported Monday. NASA engineers have talked of a heat spike and drag on the left wing, suggesting a potential problem with the thermal tiles there. But NASA’s chief told NBC News on Monday that the tiles are just one of many variables being investigated.

http://www.msnbc.com/news/867336.asp?0cv=CA01

[Prince Charles]

Cute.

[al_c]

The Columbia is physically incapable of docking at the space station. The Columbia is too heavy. Second, the Columbia was at a lower orbit and didnt have enough fuel to take it up to the higher level and catch the ISS (this isnt Star Trek).

Look ... I'm just asking these questions because I don't know what, if anything, NASA could've done. I'm just being curious. I'm not making any Star Trek or Bruce Willis style suggestions here. I'm merely looking for information. I appreciate the straight forward factual answers, but there's no reason for the smart-a$$ Star Trek or Bruce Willis jabs.