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Astronauts doomed from the start
.heraldsun ^ | 2/3/2003 | PHILLIP COOREY and ANNA COCK

Posted on 02/02/2003 6:35:58 PM PST by TLBSHOW

Astronauts doomed from the start

THE seven astronauts on space shuttle Columbia may have been doomed in the first moments after they were shot into space 16 days ago.

NASA officials are investigating whether loose foam from an external tank that struck Columbia's left wing during takeoff contributed to its disintegration under the stress of re-entering the Earth's atmosphere – one of the most dangerous parts of any shuttle mission. The last words between mission control at Houston and shuttle commander Rick Husband gave no clue of impending disaster:

Mission control: "Columbia, Houston, we see your tyre pressure messages and we did not copy your last."

Cdr Husband: "Roger, but . . ." No more was heard.

The homeward-bound space shuttle broke up in flames and trails of smoke and vapour over Texas yesterday, killing all seven astronauts aboard.

The disaster struck 16 minutes before Columbia, the oldest in the shuttle fleet at 22 years, was due to land at Cape Canaveral in Florida. Echoing the tragedy of space shuttle Challenger, which stunned the world 17 years last week, Columbia exploded at an altitude of about 63km as it was travelling 18 times the speed of sound.

The explosion scattered debris and human remains across hundreds of square kilometres in Texas and Louisiana and shook houses in the area around Nacogdoches, Texas.

Police in Hemphill, eastern Texas, said human remains believed to be from the crew of Columbia had been recovered.

"I can confirm human remains from the space shuttle Columbia have been found in the debris," Hemphill police spokeswoman Karen Steele said, declining to elaborate.

A burnt torso and thigh bone were found on a Texan country road while elsewhere a scorched helmet and arm patch from one of the space suits were discovered.

In a televised address to the nation, an emotional President George W. Bush paid homage to the astronauts, saying, "The crew of the shuttle Columbia did not return safely to earth but we can pray that they are safely home".

The sparse information NASA had yesterday seemed to point to failures on the craft's left side.

Sensors on the shuttle's left wing and in the left wheel gear detected a sudden temperature increase or failure minutes before the vehicle exploded 63km over Texas as it flew at more than 20,000km/h.

NASA had concluded only two days ago there was no serious damage to the tiles, but was uncertain last night.

"As we look at that now in hindsight we cannot discount that there might be a connection," stunned shuttle manager Ron Dittemore said.

Investigators have all but ruled out terrorism as a cause because the shuttle's high altitude and extreme speed effectively put it out of range of an attack from the ground.

Officials are focusing on the extent of damage sustained during take-off.

Experts said many other malfunctions could have destroyed the shuttle during re-entry, when a cocoon of hot plasma envelops the spacecraft.

Columbia's underside and the leading edges of its wings would have been subjected to some of the highest temperatures during re-entry – up to 1650C – as friction from air rushing by heated its surface, experts said.

During this critical period, computers control the shuttle's angle of descent as it flies with its nose pointed about 40 degrees upward; the slightest deviation from the ideal orientation can expose underprotected parts of the vessel, causing it to burn up.

The shuttle's chief defences against an inferno are about 28,000 heat-resistant tiles attached to its vulnerable aluminium exterior. Experts have worried about the tiles' tendency to break off during flights since the earliest days of experimental test flights.

Relatives of the astronauts – six Americans and an Israeli – watched in horror while waiting at Cape Canaveral's VIP area to welcome their loved ones.

Residents in Texas, Louisiana and Alabama reported hearing the explosion as the shuttle fell apart at more than 18 times the speed of sound.

Bob Molter from Palestine, Texas, said he had seen the shuttle break up in the sky.

"There was a big boom that shook the house for more than a minute, and I went outside because I thought there had been a train accident," he said.

"I looked up and saw the trails of smoke zig-zagging, going across the sky."

Thousand of pieces of debris landed over vast areas of Texas and Louisiana which experts said may take years to find. People were warned not to touch any wreckage because it might be contaminated with toxic propellants.

President George W. Bush rushed to the White House from where he described the disaster in a televised address as a national tragedy.

"The Columbia is lost. There are no survivors," he said, before later ordering all flags be flown at half-mast.

The crew, six of whom were married and five of whom had children, were relatively inexperienced. Only three had flown in space before.

NASA has ruled out human error.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: astronauts; spaceshuttle
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To: Lancey Howard
That's what I am thinking. Didn't the Clean Air Act of 1995 cause Freon to be gas non grata in America?
301 posted on 02/03/2003 12:42:50 AM PST by Jael
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To: Concerned
"It seems to me that they COULD have done something about it!
They could have:
(1) NOT left the earth's atmosphere in the first place, scratched the mission and headed back for home

Not left the earth's atmosphere? When? AT what point are you assuming that NASA understood there was some kind of an anomoly at lift off? In time to call them back from the rocket they were sitting on?

(2) Gone on the mission, but NOT reentered the earth's atmosphere until (3) and (4) were done

I'll withhold comment until we've dealt with 3 and 4.

(3) Instead, gone to the Space Station and tethered Colombia until a space walk could be done---now or on another Shuttle Flight

Columbia had NO CAPACITY to go to the space station. It had no docking capability even in the event it would have been able to get to the ISS.

"(4) Do a space walk to VISUALLY EXAMINE the entire craft, particularly the left wing (and underneath it), and REPAIR the damage (now if posible or later if necessary)"

If you had been able to actually accumulate some knowledge, about which you write, (at the very least watch the press conference.....sorry that somebody was sick and you couldn't do it.) you would know that they did not have the capability to space walk to visually examine the the entire craft. As a matter of fact, even if they could, there is NO capability to fix what may have been found in that environment.

"(5) Ride down on the Russian Soyeus (sp?) that was coming up to the Space Station on either Sunday, Monday or Tuesday to get back to earth and pick up needed parts for repairs

Oy vey, this is getting really ridiculous. Sure, the Pony Express was scheduled on Feb 6.

"(6) Send another large crew back up in another Shuttle to do the repairs and fly both the new Shuttle and the Colombia home."

And where were they supposed to meet? At Happy hour on the moon?

302 posted on 02/03/2003 12:43:44 AM PST by A Citizen Reporter
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To: TLBSHOW
I can't go that far. I think it's a kind of "can do jock attitude" , not an effort on NASA's part to actually see people dead!!!

BUT, there seem to have been some saftey issues that were over looked in favor of political correctness. :-(
303 posted on 02/03/2003 12:45:53 AM PST by Jael
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To: TLBSHOW
From what YOU see Todd? LOLOLOL!

YOU can't even stick to the topics of your own thread. But keep holding NASA's feet to the fire.

304 posted on 02/03/2003 12:49:13 AM PST by A Citizen Reporter
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To: A Citizen Reporter
don't worry I will! Thanks for the extra push now its time to gather all I can before things dissappear off the web! As they are doing.
305 posted on 02/03/2003 12:57:32 AM PST by TLBSHOW (God Speed as Angels trending upward dare to fly Tribute to the Risk Takers)
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To: Jael
BTTT
306 posted on 02/03/2003 12:58:33 AM PST by TLBSHOW (God Speed as Angels trending upward dare to fly Tribute to the Risk Takers)
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To: TLBSHOW; Luis Gonzalez; #3Fan
Hi Luis, hope all is well for you these days.

"NASA knew from the second day of Columbia's 16-day research mission that a piece of the insulating foam on the external fuel tank had peeled off just after liftoff and struck the left wing, possibly ripping off some of the tiles that keep the ship from burning up when it re-enters Earth's atmosphere." http://www.washtimes.com/national/20030203-87326768.htm

http://ltp.arc.nasa.gov/space/team/journals/katnik/sts87-12-23.html
"Damage numbering up to forty tiles is considered normal on each mission due to ice dropping off of the external tank (ET) and plume re-circulation causing this debris to impact with the tiles. But the extent of damage at the conclusion of this mission was not "normal."

The pattern of hits did not follow aerodynamic expectations, and the number, size and severity of hits were abnormal. Three hundred and eight hits were counted during the inspection, one-hundred and thirty two (132) were greater than one inch. Some of the hits measured fifteen (15) inches long with depths measuring up to one and one-half (1 1/2) inches. Considering that the depth of the tile is two (2) inches, a 75% penetration depth had been reached. Over one hundred (100) tiles have been removed from the Columbia because they were irreparable."



http://www.arnold.af.mil/aedc/newsreleases/1999/99-041.htm
"According to NASA, during several previous Space Shuttle flights, including the shuttle launched Nov. 29, 1998, the shuttle external tank experienced a significant loss of foam from the intertank. The material lost caused damage to the thermal protection high-temperature tiles on the lower surface of the shuttle orbiter."

307 posted on 02/03/2003 12:59:04 AM PST by Jael
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To: Howlin
Question for you. WHy is TBLSHOW now a bigot?
308 posted on 02/03/2003 1:01:18 AM PST by Jael
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To: TLBSHOW
Oh you're a regular Michael Rivero, you are Todd.
309 posted on 02/03/2003 1:01:20 AM PST by A Citizen Reporter
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To: Jael
Because Islam is not Peace!
310 posted on 02/03/2003 1:04:24 AM PST by TLBSHOW (God Speed as Angels trending upward dare to fly Tribute to the Risk Takers)
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To: A Citizen Reporter
All I wanted to point out was the ship burned from the second of re-entry I didn't know it would turn into what it has, but what the heck. I am always right!
311 posted on 02/03/2003 1:06:34 AM PST by TLBSHOW (God Speed as Angels trending upward dare to fly Tribute to the Risk Takers)
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To: TLBSHOW
Basically Todd, you are never right. And now you've dragged Fred Mertz down into your mire of a BIG DOOM PREDICTION.

It's hilariously funny, coming from you two clowns.

Nitey night, Todd.

Try to keep NASA's feet to the fire!!!!!

312 posted on 02/03/2003 1:12:56 AM PST by A Citizen Reporter
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To: A Citizen Reporter
I WROTE: "It seems to me that they COULD have done something about it!"

I CONTINUED: "They could have:
(1) NOT left the earth's atmosphere in the first place, scratched the mission and headed back for home"

A CITIZEN REPORTER RESPONDED: "Not left the earth's atmosphere? When? AT what point are you assuming that NASA understood there was some kind of an anomoly at lift off? In time to call them back from the rocket they were sitting on?"

MY ANSWER: From what I understand, the foam or ice was noticed BEFORE liftoff (I may not have heard correctly and I was out of town on business at liftoff so I did not see liftoff).

MY ANSWER CONTINUED: However, since NASA was ALREADY WELL AWARE of the EXTREME BRITTLE, FRAGILE nature of the black heat-shield coating from DAY ONE, and according to a previously posted, alleged Shuttle post-flight inspector's statements, they were also ALREADY WELL AWARE that an UNUSUALLY HIGH number of tiles had been missing or damaged since FREON-FREE adhesive have been used, the falling object's potential damage should have been examined.

MY ANSWER CONTINUED: It is my further understanding that at T-3 (T minus three hours), they do do an inspection of some kind. I have no idea when the object fell. Since the tiles are ABSOLUTELY CRITICAL to returning to earth's atmosphere, and since they ARE so BRITTLE and FRAGILE, ANYTHING falling on them should be suspect.

MY ANSWER CONTINUED: If the Shuttle had already taken off and/or NASA engineers did not see it (negligence on their part), then they would obviously not be able to do anything about it until they were up. I am not aware of how long of a runway is needed for a Shuttle, but I suspect that it could have gotten up and emergency landed again at a large airport before leaving the atmosphere.

MY ANSWER CONTINUED: One of the MOST IMPORTANT concepts taught to pilots is that if there is something you just really don't feel right about, SCRUB IT. That can apply to take-offs, landings, touch-and-go's or anything inbetween. You are to always err on the side of SAFETY.

I WROTE: (2) Gone on the mission, but NOT reentered the earth's atmosphere until (3) and (4) were done

A CITIZEN REPORTER RESPONDED: "I'll withhold comment until we've dealt with 3 and 4."

MY ANSWER: You really didn't address (2) so there is nothing to respond to.

I WROTE: "(3) Instead, gone to the Space Station and tethered Colombia until a space walk could be done---now or on another Shuttle Flight"

A CITIZEN REPORTER RESPONDED: "Columbia had NO CAPACITY to go to the space station. It had no docking capability even in the event it would have been able to get to the ISS."

MY ANSWER: For an operation which has backup after backup after backup, it is incredible that NASA has ZERO PROVISION for going to and tethering to the Space Station for emergencies, e.g. repairs (or whatever purpose).

MY ANSWER CONTINUED: Since they seem to be having an UNUSUAL number of tiles falling off, they NEED to come up with some way to do it. If nothing else, with the lack of wind resistance, they ought to be able to have some sort of emergency attachment hookup location on the Shuttles and ISS and carry enough cable to be able to do just that. Even Apollo 13 had enough "spare parts" to jerry-rig something together to get the emergency taken care of.

I WROTE: "(4) Do a space walk to VISUALLY EXAMINE the entire craft, particularly the left wing (and underneath it), and REPAIR the damage (now if posible or later if necessary)"

A CITIZEN REPORTER RESPONDED: "If you had been able to actually accumulate some knowledge, about which you write, (at the very least watch the press conference.....sorry that somebody was sick and you couldn't do it.) you would know that they did not have the capability to space walk to visually examine the the entire craft. As a matter of fact, even if they could, there is NO capability to fix what may have been found in that environment."

MY ANSWER: First off, your ridiculing tone is unnecessary. Second, astronauts have done space walks from the Shuttle before. They SHOULD be able to do them on EVERY flight in case of emergency. Adding more cable (or whatever they use) should not be an issue. If they want to not have to have as much cable, they could have hookup locations every ten feet (using a master cable to allow safe movement between hookups) so they COULD go completely around the Shuttle. Since they ARE having so much problem, a "walk around" might ought to be REAQUIRED before returning.

MY ANSWER CONTINUED: Using the pilot example again, a pilot does not fly an airplane without following EVERY DETAIL of their check list. Private pilots must go around (with the check list) and make a VISUAL INSPECTION of the aircraft. I would think that although a commercial pilot still follows an internal check list, a "ground crew" probably checks the plane.

MY ANSWER CONTINUED: Again, having all the backups, it is INCONCEIVABLE that they don't have some SPARE heat-treated styrofoam and FREON-FREE GLUE to repair their FREQUENT tile need.

I WROTE: "(5) Ride down on the Russian Soyeus (sp?) that was coming up to the Space Station on either Sunday, Monday or Tuesday to get back to earth and pick up needed parts for repairs"

A CITIZEN REPORTER RESPONDED: "Oy vey, this is getting really ridiculous. Sure, the Pony Express was scheduled on Feb 6."

MY ANSWER: When you have an EMERGENCY and you are STUCK IN SPACE with a sick Shuttle and NO SPARE PARTS, I would take the Russian "Pony Express" as you call it---ANY DAY! Looking back, knowing with 20/20 hindsight what happened, wouldn't you? I would think they carry enough backup food and water for a longer than expected stay.

MY ANSWER CONTINUED: Obviously, they didn't know it was going to break apart, but as I stated in my first "pilot" comment about a funny feeling of hesitation, it would have been better to be able to do a space walk to EXAMINE the condition. There is NO EXCUSE for not ALWAYS having such a backup procedure available.

I WROTE: "(6) Send another large crew back up in another Shuttle to do the repairs and fly both the new Shuttle and the Colombia home."

A CITIZEN REPORTER RESPONDED: "And where were they supposed to meet? At Happy hour on the moon?

MY ANSWER: "If they have made it to orbit, the ISS is the logical location, whether they can dock or just tether. I am not sure if a GPS could work properly in space, but if so, it would be an exact location.

313 posted on 02/03/2003 2:38:07 AM PST by Concerned
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To: A Citizen Reporter
REAQUIRED should have been REQUIRED.
DAY ONE should have been DAY ONE (Twenty-something years ago).
314 posted on 02/03/2003 2:45:48 AM PST by Concerned
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To: TLBSHOW
I am always right!

In your dreams. Enough already.

315 posted on 02/03/2003 5:01:24 AM PST by Carolinamom (I was determined to know beans.......Henry David Thoreau)
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To: Jael
Thanks for the info. If I recall from back in the day when I actually paid close attention to flights, losing a number of tiles on both take-off and re-entry was common-place. Columbia even lost some on her maiden voyage, and while it is known that something (I didn't know they knew for sure what it was) struck the wing on take-off, they are not saying for certain that it damaged the ship.

Space exploration, while we would like to think otherwise, is still in its infancy, and frought with danger. All in all, NASA's record is great, seventeen deaths out of hundreds of missions. Great when you consider that we suffer more deaths in toothpick related accidents in a year, than NASA has in their entire existence.

Let's hope that the reasons for the accident are found, and corrective measures taken.

316 posted on 02/03/2003 5:32:35 AM PST by Luis Gonzalez (The Ever So Humble Banana Republican)
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To: Concerned
The shuttle Columbia COULD NOT GET to the ISS because the space station is at an orbital distance greater then Columbias engines could reach. It was an IMPOSSIBILITY.
Repairing the tiles? Each tile is a custom fit. Do they carry spares for the entire heat shield?
A Soyuz rescue mission would actually take at LEAST 4 missions as the Soyuz carries 3 passengers at a time. Thats 1 pilot and 2 shuttle crew at a time. Since there were 7 shuttle crew do the math. Do you think the Russians have them on the pad in six packs?

Space is a dangerous place. Just like military aviation there are situations which you cannot recover from. NASA has done an amazing job considering the complexity and danger involved in this area of exploration.
317 posted on 02/03/2003 5:37:31 AM PST by Kozak
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To: Illbay; TLBSHOW
So that leads me to the vague uneasy fear that this was sabotage. NOT during the flight, and not from the ground, but some time--maybe quite some time--before the Columbia left the earth.

Loon alert!

I see the problem as NASA's to find and correct; probably some sort of design flaw or possibly a manufacturing flaw.

Unfortunately, NASA now controls the information, so I don't watch their 2+ hour press conferences.

318 posted on 02/03/2003 6:29:32 AM PST by Fred Mertz
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To: Fred Mertz
I didn't catch that part as this thread was moing fast. Did Illbay say that?

This is NASA....
319 posted on 02/03/2003 6:32:55 AM PST by TLBSHOW (God Speed as Angels trending upward dare to fly Tribute to the Risk Takers)
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To: SMEDLEYBUTLER
I understand that's a spelling of "tire"....it's just a spelling that's totally out of place.

No one in the States uses "tyre". Not even regionally.

320 posted on 02/03/2003 7:10:50 AM PST by Psycho_Bunny
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