California: Planners seek to ease Prop. 13 rules

Orange County Register ^ | Feb 1, 2003

[John Jorsett]

SACRAMENTO

[cgbg]

There was an excellent discussion about this issue a month or so ago by Freepers.

Proposition 13 is a major factor driving the escalating price of California real estate.

This is an unintended consequence.

It works like this:

If you hold your property you keep the benefits of low property taxes. If you sell it and move somewhere else your new property is reassessed and you are clobbered.

As a result there is a huge economic incentive for Californians who want to move within the state to stay where they are and keep their home off the market.

Therefore as long as there is any significant net in-migration of potential homebuyers (or renters who move to buying--i.e. younger Californians) then the demand for housing will greatly exceed the supply. The result is wildly escalating housing prices.

There are other factors as well (environmentalist regulations preventing and related zoning restrictions preventing new units) but this is a major impact.

So, if proposition 13 is repealed the impact on California property values will be devastating. Combine that with the current unemployment situation and we could be talking major real estate meltdown here.

This is high stakes politics. I wonder if all the players understand the consequences.

[John Jorsett]

"There's not a lot of incentive for cities to build houses...."What does this mean?

The state essentially confiscates all property tax revenue in California and then gives *some* of it back. Therefore municipalities and counties have a bias toward land being used for retail establishments because those businesses generate sales taxes, which these governments get to keep.

[John Jorsett]

One major factor missing from your analysis is the attidutde in California toward 'sprawl' (i.e. building your home away from the city so that you're not living on top of your neighbors), and development in general. Building a residence in this state is an arduous process and that acts as a big limit on supply.

So, if proposition 13 is repealed the impact on California property values will be devastating.

I don't think there's any real danger of repeal. What is more likely is some sort of 'split-roll' system, where non-residential buildings get taxed at a higher rate and residential continues under the present system. And businesses shouldn't count on Republicans to help them avoid this: after the way corporations sold out to Davis and the Democrats in the past, Republicans aren't inclined to come to their rescue. Their attitude is increasingly to let businesses reap the rewards of their folly.

[John Jorsett]

A politician who robs Peter to pay Paul WILL ALWAYS HAVE THE SUPPORT OF PAUL. And there are a sh*tload more Pauls in California than just about anywhere.

Yeah, but they're running out of Peters. Pretty soon they'll have to start robbing Paul senior to pay Paul junior.

[Publius6961]

BUMP

[tubebender]

They already have their foot in the door on prop 13. Have you forgotten the lowering of the vote to 55% for school bond issues. We already have new bonds to pay for in Humboldt in just the past year with promisses of more.

[tubebender]

If you hold your property you keep the benefits of low property taxes.

I think you'll find that the # 1 beneficiary of prop 13 is the elderly including my two sisters and my brother and wife. That was one of the main reasons prop 13 passed in the first place. They were being taxed out of their homes they purchased after WW II. The number of these homes is a small percentive of the homes in Calif.

[Dianna]

I think you'll find that the # 1 beneficiary of prop 13 is the elderly including my two sisters and my brother and wife. That was one of the main reasons prop 13 passed in the first place

The same thing was happening to my parents, who had a young family at the time. Their property rates were rising at a much faster rate than their income was increasing. Without prop 13 they would have lost their house.

I read a book on education by some fairly well known liberal, Jonathan Kozol, maybe. He insisted that prop 13 was wholly conceived in order to keep school funds from poor communities. Clueless....

[Enough is ENOUGH]

Prop 13 was specifically designed to protect us from a corrupt, leftist-socialist, spend-and-tax governor and legislature that now occupy the State Capitol Building.

They will try and chip away at it year after year until there is nothing left of it.

Damnit! Don't touch Prop 13.

[jeremiah]

The one thing that sticks out about this article, is the repetition of the old phrase,"allow those that don't own property, to vote on taxes for those that do". Show the renters of property, that their rent will go up when they vote for bonds, and the bonds will fail...... end of story.

[Zack Nguyen]

The mystery will be why anyone lives in Kalifornia at all. The great westward migration will end.

[BJungNan]

"There's not a lot of incentive for cities to build houses, because in very few instances do you generate enough revenue from housing to cover the cost of providing services to that housing," said Vince Bertoni, a Santa Clarita city planner.

What a lot of garbarge this is. Just what services does this nimrod think is provided by the city - his bloated salary, the new Cadilacs all the state and city officials are buying themselves.

Laughable. These guy collect money for nothing and then think they are doing us a favor. Get a job in the real world @$$#0!#

[BJungNan]

"There's not a lot of incentive for cities to build houses, because in very few instances do you generate enough revenue from housing to cover the cost of providing services to that housing," said Vince Bertoni, a Santa Clarita city planner.

What a lot of garbarge this is. Just what services does this nimrod think is provided by the city - his bloated salary, the new Cadilacs all the state and city officials are buying themselves.

Laughable. These guy collect money for nothing and then think they are doing us a favor. Get a job in the real world @$$#0!#

[Joe Hadenuf]

bttt.....

[Joe Hadenuf]

The mystery will be why anyone lives in Kalifornia at all. The great westward migration will end.

Correction. The greater mystery is why would anyone flee and run away to some frozen, rainey, icy berg, and give up the crown jewel of America to leftist?

Those that run away, or flee from trouble, will soon learn, that cannot be done. I learned long ago, when I was young, you cannot run from trouble it will find you, no matter what.

Only those that remain, are the true, tough among us. No way are we going to give up our piece of paradise to the leftist screw worms. We plan on standing our ground, not giving an inch.

Give up the best to settle for less? Not me.

Good luck to your endeavor of running away and attempting to hide. You will need it, as it is later than you think.

[Oliver Boliver Butt]

Hey, it's just a "modest change" so we can all live in "nice communities". In fact, I imagine Santa Clarita will have a beautiful new Vince Bertoni Park in the next few years.

[tubebender]

It's not the pre prop 13 homes they are after, it's that !% tax rate on assessed value they they want to raise at their whim. Does anyone have the assessed value of property before and after???Beside every property assessment rises 2 % a year and look at the "FEES" that have been added on including a utility tax here for "fire and police" that goes into the cities general fund.

[Zack Nguyen]

Only those that remain, are the true, tough among us. No way are we going to give up our piece of paradise to the leftist screw worms. We plan on standing our ground, not giving an inch.

I admire your principles. Good for you for staying and fighting. No need to be defensive - we share the same fight here.

[BJungNan]

I'm hoping for a Gucci designer park in our neighborhood but I think they are going to put that around the city hall building instead.

[Publius6961]

Proposition 13 is a major factor driving the escalating price of California real estate.
BS!

This is an unintended consequence.
Bigger BS!

Having been in land development as a planner and engineer for 30 years in private industry, I know that is the lamest self-fulfilling prophecy.

The NIMBY factor, "environmental" regulations and the resulting stranglehold in the use of land, plus exorbitant fees are the primary causes of housing prices going through the roof.

No question in my mind!