Shuttle Pic--SIDE VIEW!

WFAA | 02/01/03 | GRRRRR

[GRRRRR]

This is the picture that Rintense and I have seen...from the WFAA video...you can see the shuttle from the REAR clearly, and it is traveling from FRAME RIGHT TO FRAME LEFT--look closely, you can certainly see the shuttle's main engines at the rear, also the PROFILE of the shuttle from underneath...and in the video, it's moving in the direction of the left wing...

[Kevin Curry]

But is the entire image an artifact? Is there nothing from the image that yields meaningful information?

[VaBthang4]

"Well? Are you going to educate us "dumbasses" and "idiots" or are you just going to pitch rocks? Put up or shut up?"

You asked for it.

I think it is a UFO. You see the World [AND BY EXTENSION THE REST OF THE UNIVERSE] is Liberal. Rabid anti-semite Liberal. So some space aliens [being more advanced than we are, and therefore to be worshipped] zapped the shuttle because it had an evil J-E-W on board. Kinda like a big Admin Moderator in the sky who didnt like the message being sent by the evil J-E-W loving Americans....so he stepped in and squashed the metaphorical post that was the Columbia Space Shuttle.

And just to get their point across, the Alien supreme Moderators zotted the Shuttle over...now get this...Palestine, Texas. Huh?!! How you like them apples. It is a cosmic message sent from the heavens to show us that we Americans are wrong in our stance in the Middle East. That we are arrogant McDonalds eating, Victoria's Secret exporting, Oil crazed SUV driving demoniac terrorists subjugating the World with our imperialistic hedgemony and Cowboy mindset.

That's what I think.

[Disclaimer]

The above message is merely an attempt to fit in with some of the other completely moronic nitwit posts that have taken over this thread.

I mean no disrespect towards the Shuttle Crew, NASA, or the families of the crew...

...however, I do mean disrespect towards half of the idiots who have continued there nonsensical ponderings on such a simple and easily explained subject.

[jayef]

I think you're absolutely right. There is no way Columbia goes into a flat spin at Mach 20.

[VaBthang4]

Sorry'bout that last Their/There.

[CyberAnt]

Hmmmm? You may have a great point! Not being an aero engineer type, I have no idea if their going sideways would cause them to be unstable enough to probably tumble instead of glide - but then I really don't know.

[rintense]

I'm just amazed that a camcorder can zoom in that far. You can distinctly make out the shape of the shuttle.

[wasp69]

Well? Are you going to educate us "dumbasses" and "idiots" or are you just going to pitch rocks? Put up or shut up?

I think it is a UFO. You see the World [AND BY EXTENSION THE REST OF THE UNIVERSE] is Liberal. Rabid anti-semite Liberal....(Whatever in the hell that means and however it pertains to the facts I asked you to refute)

That's what I think.

And I'm a dumbass?

[VaBthang4]

Yep...

It is looking more and more [just based on the little I have seen so far] that the Shuttle's integrity had begun experiencing problems well before it reached Texas and quite possibly before California.

Whatever the malfunction, it seems to have increased the heat exerted on the left wing and it's internals. NASA's own comments thus far seem to bare that out.

Eventually/predictably the left wing's integrity gave out completely which then led immediately to a loss of stability/alignment and then quick almost immediate catastrophic failure for the entire Shuttle somewhere over Texas.

Prayerfully the crew died in nanoseconds. Also prayerfully, NASA can piece together the process and errors in order to avoid a repeat.

Just an aweful tragedy.

[jaugust]

Thanks for the informed post. I actually have stuck my hand out of an aircraft doing about 125 kts. Actually an RH-53 helo flying off the coast of N. Carolina. As soon as I stuck my hand out the mixture of the air passing and the down draft from the rotor immediately pushed my hand backward. Needless to say I didn't do that again. Thanks for joging my memeory. ;)

[My2Cents]

Great catch! Nice explanation of a misleading video picture.

[PokeyJoe]

I think an optical engineer stated earlier that the answer is "yes, it's an optical artifact"

[Justa]

"I'm just amazed that a camcorder can zoom in that far. You can distinctly make out the shape of the shuttle"

Play this video. Pause it. Scroll approx. 2/5s through to where the text crawler displays "TURNS TO WHITE HOUSE FROM CAMP DAVID TO MONITOR SPACE SHUT"

That's what I've been talking about all day. The shuttle w/hole showing 3-main engines and facing South as well as the broken off tail w/rudder markings visible perpendicular to camera are visible. That's it!

[Steven W.]

for those who don't live in the Southwestern US, the sky was clear and no wind leaving the entire comtrail / plume from the shuttle still visible for several hours after we lost Columbia - it did not just become visible at the time the purprorted plane, UFO, or other figment of a psychotic imagination.

[rintense]

Yep!

[lqcincinnatus]

NACOGDOCHES, TEXAS. Nacogdoches, the county seat of Nacogdoches County, is on State highways 7, 21, 59 (a principal artery to Houston), and 259, fifty miles west of the Sabine River and 100 miles north of Beaumont in the central part of the county. It was named for the Nacogdoche Indians, a Caddo group. Archeological research has established that mounds found in the area date from approximately A.D. 1250, when the Indians built lodges along Lanana and Bonita creeks, which converge just south of Nacogdoches and continue as a single stream to the Angelina River. The mounds were found to contain human bones and pottery. The expedition of René Robert Cavelier, Sieur de La Salle,qv visited the area in 1687. Louis Juchereau de St. Denisqv was sent by the French governor Sieur Antoine de la Mothe Cadillac to establish trade with the Indians in Spanish Texas.qv St. Denis marked a trail through Nacogdoches to the Rio Grande, along part of the route later known as the Old San Antonio Road,qv and was briefly arrested. In the summer of 1716 he accompanied Domingo Ramónqv back to East Texasqv to found Nuestra Señora de Guadalupe de los Nacogdoches and five other missions. The Franciscan Antonio Margil de Jesúsqv had charge of the missions. Guadalupe Mission was abandoned briefly two years later due to fears of a French invasion but was reestablished by the Marqués de Aguayoqv in 1721. It operated more or less continuously until 1772, when viceroy Antonio María de Bucareli y Ursúaqv promulgated the New Regulations for Presidios,qv which recommended the recall of all missions and settlers to San Antonio. The following year Governor Juan María Vicencio de Ripperdáqv sent soldiers to force the removal of all Spanish subjects to San Antonio. Antonio Gil Ibarvo,qv from the Lobanillo Creek area southeast of Nacogdoches, became the leader of the settlers. He petitioned successfully for the group to be allowed to return part of the way to East Texas. They established a community named Bucareliqv on the banks of the Trinity River, where they remained for four years until floods and Indian raids caused Ibarvo to lead them in 1779 to the abandoned mission site at Nacogdoches, possibly the only building of European origin then standing in East Texas. Later Ibarvo was commissioned commander of the militia and magistrate of the pueblo of Nacogdoches, the first official recognition of civil status for the community. Nacogdoches became a gateway for trade, mostly illicit, with the French and later the Americans, from Natchitoches and New Orleans, Louisiana. Ibarvo constructed a stone house, later known as the Old Stone Fort,qv where he conducted business. Because of his governmental position it also assumed a public nature, which it retained until it was demolished in 1902. A replica of the building was constructed on the campus of Stephen F. Austin State University during the Texas Centennialqv celebration (1936). The location of Nacogdoches also gave it prominence in early military and political activities. During the 1790s the American mustanger and filibuster Philip Nolanqv often headquartered there. In 1806 Lt. Col. Simón de Herreraqv headquartered at Nacogdoches while negotiating the Neutral Groundqv agreement with Gen. James Wilkinsonqv of the United States. In 1812 filibusters Augustus Magee and Bernardo Gutiérrez de Laraqqv proclaimed Texas free from Spain while at Nacogdoches, and they published the first newspaper in Texas, the Gaceta de Tejas,qv before going on to meet defeat at the hands of Gen. Joaquín de Arredondoqv at a battle near San Antonio. Arredondo ordered all who collaborated with them to be arrested, and the entire population of Nacogdoches fled into the Texas or Louisiana wilderness for safety temporarily. Arredondo's men almost completely destroyed the town. After the signing of the Adams-Onís Treaty,qv which fixed the Sabine River as the boundary between Texas and the United States, James Longqv and 300 followers occupied Nacogdoches in 1819 and again declared Texas independent of Spain. Long remained in Nacogdoches only a short time before attempting another expedition on the coast, which resulted in his death. The empresarial grant of Haden Edwardsqv was headquartered at Nacogdoches, as was his abortive Fredonian Rebellionqv of 1825-27. After this movement Col. José de las Piedrasqv commanded a Mexican military garrison at Nacogdoches until driven from the area in August 1832 after the battle of Nacogdoches,qv one of the events that led to the Texas Revolutionqv (see also ANAHUAC DISTURBANCES). During that movement several prominent figures, including Hayden S. Arnold, N. Adolphus Sterne,qqv and four signers of the Texas Declaration of Independenceqv-John S. Roberts, Charles S. Taylor, Thomas J. Rusk, and Robert Potterqqv-claimed Nacogdoches as their home. The town was a seat of unrest and supplied the revolutionary cause with men and money. After the revolution the uprising of Vicente Córdovaqv against the Republic of Texasqv in 1838 also centered around Nacogdoches. In antebellum Texasqv and during the Civil War and Reconstruction,qqv Nacogdoches lost its prominence in state political and business affairs, due to lack of transportation facilities, particularly railroads and navigable rivers. Though once one of the three most important counties in Texas, Nacogdoches County was reduced to 902 square miles as other counties were formed from its territory. Nacogdoches itself had been incorporated in 1837. During the twentieth century it remained a small city with steady if not dramatic growth. When Stephen F. Austin State Teachers College (now Stephen F. Austin State University) was established in Nacogdoches in 1923, the college became the community's largest attraction to new residents and inducement to cultural activities. The Nacogdoches economy is based on education, agriculture, agricultural services, and manufacturing. The town is the headquarters for Texas Farm Products, a state leader in the manufacture of fertilizer, animal feed, and animal health products. Nacogdoches is a state leader in the broiler industry; several poultry hatcheries, feeders, and processing plants are located here (see POULTRY PRODUCTION). McGraw Edison (electrical equipment), Sun Terrace (lawn furniture), East Texas Canning Company (beverages), Bright Coop Company (chicken coops), Foretravel (recreation vehicles), Herider Farms (processed poultry), Holly Farms and Indian River International (chicks, feed, poultry breeding stock), Mize Brothers Manufacturing Company (women's wear), Moore Business Forms, and NIBCO (valves) are among the local industries. Nacogdoches is a distribution and trade center for East Texas. Tourismqv is also a major industry. Public ground transportation is provided by the Southern Pacific Railroad, the Trailways Bus Line, and seven freight companies, and private air service is available at East Texas Regional Airport, operated by the city, on State Highway 7 southwest of town. Nacogdoches has two commercial radio stations and a public station sponsored by the university. It receives signals from television station KTRE, which also serves Lufkin, twenty miles to the south. The Daily Sentinel is the city's only newspaper. The community supports several financial institutions. The population was 27,149 in 1980 and 30,872 in 1990. The town is predominantly white, but African Americansqv make up an estimated one-third of the population, and the Hispanic population is rapidly growing. There are a few American Indian and Asian residents. Residents are served by nearly forty churches, of which nearly one-half are Baptist. Other communions represented are Assembly of God, Catholic, Church of Christ, Church of God, Episcopal, Lutheran, Methodist, Mormon, Nazarene, Pentecostal, Presbyterian, and Seventh-day Adventist. Cultural activities in Nacogdoches center around Stephen F. Austin State University, where local and professional theatrical productions and musical performances are held. More than seventy civic, professional, and fraternal organizations are present in the city. The Nacogdoches Independent School District provides kindergarten, elementary, and secondary education, and private schools located at Christ Episcopal Church and Fredonia Hill Baptist Church provide elementary education. Stephen F. Austin State University, which grants baccalaureate and graduate degrees, annually enrolls approximately 12,000 students. Spectator sports are available at the high school and collegiate level. Other recreation is available at the city parks, at the lake belonging to the park system (primarily intended as a water reservoir), and at nearby Sam Rayburn and Toledo Bend reservoirs.qqv Nacogdoches is located on hilly terrain with an altitude that varies from 150 feet to 600 feet above sea level. The center of the city, still a viable downtown shopping area, is a mixture of historic and contemporary architecture. It includes the city hall, a public library, and a retail shopping area with food services, although most fast-food businesses are located along North Street near the university campus. Victorian homes are located along shaded Mound Street, and later subdivisions ring the city. Historic preservation is encouraged; among the historic structures are the restored home of Adolphus Sterne, the oldest structure in the city, the Old University Building, the Blount House, Millard's Crossing (a preservation village), and many private dwellings. BIBLIOGRAPHY: Rogayle Franklin, "Nacogdoches: Industry and Education Amidst History," Texas Business, March 1983. Archie P. McDonald, The Old Stone Fort (Austin: Texas State Historical Association, 1981). Archie P. McDonald, comp., Nacogdoches: Wilderness Outpost to Modern City, 1779-1979 (photocopy, Barker Texas History Center, University of Texas at Austin). Archie P. McDonald Recommended citation: "NACOGDOCHES, TX." The Handbook of Texas Online. [Accessed Sat Feb 1 23:25:42 US/Central 2003 ]. The Handbook of Texas Online is a joint project of The General Libraries at the University of Texas at Austin (http://www.lib.utexas.edu) and the Texas State Historical Association (http://www.tsha.utexas.edu). Copyright ©, The Texas State Historical Association, 1997-2002 Last Updated: July 23, 2002 Comments to: comments.tsha@lib.utexas.edu

[lqcincinnatus]

HEMPHILL, TEXAS (Sabine County). Hemphill, the county seat of Sabine County, is at the junction of State highways 87 and 184, thirty miles southeast of Nacogdoches in central Sabine County. The original county seat of Sabine County was Milam, in the northern portion of the county, but voters in 1858 approved a resolution to move the county seat to a more central site. E. P. Beddoeqv of Sabinetown was given the authority to determine the new location, lay out a town, and move the county records. When the new county seat was laid out in 1859, it was named in honor of John Hemphill.qv The town received a post office in July 1859, with Michael Watson as postmaster. Though Hemphill's central location may have been an advantage in that it made it more accessible to county residents, it was a distinct disadvantage to the town's growth potential. The main transportation arteries that have crossed the county have never gone through the central portion. During the 1800s, the main transportation route was the Sabine River, which forms the county's eastern boundary, and for the first half of the 1900s, the main transportation avenue was the Gulf, Beaumont and Great Northern Railway, which was constructed through the southwestern quadrant of the county in 1902. Though the Lufkin, Hemphill and Gulf Railway provided Hemphill with rail connections in 1912, the line was abandoned in 1938, shortly after the lumber operation at nearby East Mayfield was closed. U.S. Highway 96, during the 1980s the only United States highway that crossed the county, closely follows the rail line that was constructed through the southwestern quadrant in 1902. In 1884 Hemphill had an estimated population of 350, two churches, a district school, a gin, a mill, and a newspaper. Residents received their mail triweekly. By 1900 the town's population was reported as 279, and by 1914 it had reached an estimated 430. Between 1914 and the 1920s the town grew rapidly, though population estimates for the 1920s, which vary from 3,100 to 1,200, may also encompass all or part of East Mayfield. During the 1930s and 1940s the population of Hemphill was estimated at 731. In 1988 Hemphill had an estimated 1,530 residents and seventy-six rated businesses. In 1990 its population was reported as 1,182. BIBLIOGRAPHY: Robert Cecil McDaniel, Sabine County, Texas (Waco: Texian, 1987). Edna McDaniel White and Blanche Findley Toole, Sabine County Historical Sketches and Genealogical Records (Beaumont, 1972). Cecil Harper, Jr. Recommended citation: "HEMPHILL, TX." The Handbook of Texas Online. [Accessed Sat Feb 1 23:28:19 US/Central 2003 ]. The Handbook of Texas Online is a joint project of The General Libraries at the University of Texas at Austin (http://www.lib.utexas.edu) and the Texas State Historical Association (http://www.tsha.utexas.edu). Copyright ©, The Texas State Historical Association, 1997-2002 Last Updated: July 23, 2002 Comments to: comments.tsha@lib.utexas.edu

[DouglasKC]

That is an out of focus on a point of light. Often UFO pics are like that.

Common sense bump for post 126...

[finnman69]

Sorry, but no way what you think you are seeing actually there.

[TXnMA]

Like others here, I was struck by the similarity of the zoomed image to a rear-view of the shuttle from below, However:

I have a Panasonic video editing system, and I spent considerable time this afternoon analyzing this video sequence -- on video recorded directly off-satellite on one of the editing decks.

I have also spent a like amount of time analyzing the Quicktime video clip under discussion.

As a result of these analyses -- and FreedomCalls' analysis of the aperture artifact here,
I now conclude that FreedomCalls' analysis is the correct one, and the shuttle could not have been in a 90-degree starboard yaw mode for any finite length of time.

Although the zoomed image does bear a fortuitous, superficial resemblance to a rear-view of the Shuttle consider the following:

1. The three dark 'dots in line' (which have been interpreted as the main engine bells) are not shuttle engines: The shuttle engines are in a triangular layout -- not three-in-line.

2. Every time the separated (so-called "tail") part is at maximum brightness, it forms a triangle the same shape and orientation as the bright upper triangle in the (inverted) aperture image. (It is also an aperture-flare artifact.) No lower triangle appears because the flare from the reflection never reaches sufficient brightness.

3. The "shuttle image" appears to be stable in a 90-degree starboard yaw mode (sideways) with the wings level for at least five seconds. Wheras such could occur outside the atmosphere, at this point of extreme air drag (Mach 18 in the plasma zone) aerodynamic stability in such a mode could not exist -- even for a few milliseconds. The shuttle would instantly tumble about the roll axis and disintegrate in a matter of seconds.

Justa, GRRRRR , et al, don't feel bad; it had me going for a while, too.

However, IMO, Searchers should be looking for a large (possibly tail-sized) piece of debris early in the debris field -- probably west of Dallas.

FreedomCalls: Nice work!

[UnChained]

I understand what you are saying here, but I can't help but think back to the Challenger disaster in 1986. That image was clear even at an altitude of 48,000 feet, and that was using equipment that is now 17 years old.

The downrange camera that was able to give a clear view of the Challenger explosion is way more than an ordinary camera. Challenger was 75 miles away when the SRB failed. With that camera, the shuttle filled the video frame. Radar data was used to point it in the right direction.

One night during pre launch the camera operator was taking requests and we got to see the Martian ice cap very clearly.

That camera was at Kennedy, There is another at White Sands. I don't think that there is one in Texas