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To: forest
Forest - your thesis has some holes.

When the Constitution was approved, there were a handful of States. One of the sticking points in the agreement to evolve from a Confederation to a federal nation, was the mutual debt for the war. Some States had western wasteland claims east of the Mississippi that they could sell to pay their debt, some did not. Also there were conflicting claims to these "Western Wastelands." Agreements were reached where some of the States ceded the deed to these wastelands to the national federal government to dispose to pay the war debt. Some actually ceded the jurisdiction as well. Authority over these lands is covered in Article IV, Section 3(2)

The Constitution did not apply to lands West of the Mississippi. These belonged to other countries. West of the Mississippi, lands were acquired in various ways. One of the most common was the acquisition by treaty. If the land had been held by another country previously, then under International law, the laws continued unless repugnant to the Constitution and until replaced. This is why Roman Civil Law and not English common law continues in Louisiana and why Spanish (Roman law) continues as the underlying tenet of land ownership in the West (west of the Mississippi.) (This is why the east has English riparian rights and the West has Roman appropriative rights of acqusition - "first in time, first in right".)

Territorial governments similar to the colonial governments were established with Congress appointing Governors, judges, etc. This was not like government of the original States.

When Alaska was made a state, areas were actually retained by the federal government in ownership as enclaves. In the rest of the Western states, they were supposed to be on an "equal footing" with the original states, but the courts ruled that this did not apply to their own wastelands. The courts ruled that the federal government retained right of disposal. In Kleppe vs. New Mexico (which I consider a very bad decision,) SCOTUS recognized an almost separate federal police power - at least as regards lands and resources - in the federal government over federally managed lands.

In 1972 (I believe) FLPMA stated that henceforth it would be policy to retain all public lands in the ownership of the federal national government. "Public lands" are lands surveyed and available for public disposal, so now we have "federal lands" with not quite exclusive legislative jurisdiction, but with quasi police powers in excess of an ordinary property owner.

This is an extremely complex subject and not as simple as jurisdiction limited to "forts and arsenals" would appear. That refers to exclusive federal legislative jurisdiction over enclaves. There are other layers of pre-emptive legislative power over Interstate Commerce and the treaty powers that have leveraged additional control. Also, there is the practice of the federal government, in effect, purchasing jurisdiction through conditions upon states for recipt of federal money for welfare and other programs.

You need to go a bit deeper in your research, but beware, it can get pretty foggy in there and you may see medusa. I found her hiding in the Interstate Commerce Act under interstate navigation. It is like visually trying to trace the path of a piece of string through a ball of twine.
8 posted on 02/01/2003 4:28:33 PM PST by marsh2
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To: marsh2
marsh2 - your reply has some holes, too.

      First, while it's true that the Constitution did not apply to territory west of the Mississippi before the various statehoods, this was also true of territories east of the Mississippi before statehood.  The Constitution as such has only been in force only within states, and does not apply to territories today. 

      I'm not sure what the basis for state law (English vs Roman) has to do has to do with Federal control of land.  (Actually, I believe that Louisiana law is based on the Napoleonic Code.)  Are you saying that the Constitution is to be applied differently, depending on whether or not a state recognizes English Common Law?

      This just seems to be another area where the Constitution is being ignored.  Big surprise?  No.
9 posted on 02/01/2003 11:35:36 PM PST by Celtman
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To: marsh2
Repeat:beware, it can get pretty foggy in there and you may see medusa. I found her hiding in the Interstate Commerce Act under interstate navigation. It is like visually trying to trace the path of a piece of string through a ball of twine.
11 posted on 02/05/2003 9:06:35 PM PST by B4Ranch
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