Columbia Discussion thread

Feb 1, 2003

[Admin Moderator]

'

On behalf of posters on Free Republic, I post this with deepest sympathy for the crew and their families.

Mission - sts107

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This is a continuation of the original thread.

Shuttle Contact LOST-No Tracking Data During RE-Entry!

ANY DU LINKS OR POSTS WILL BE REMOVED IMMEDIATELY. Keep them on the original thread.

[xJones]

I'd like to repost your #875, it's so humble, so wise, and covers so much. That's what we need. Thank you.

"I try to write to my elderly mother on a frequent basis. In each letter I close with a prayer. I wanted to share today's with you now.

Our Beloved Heavenly Father, Our Lord Christ Jesus,

We come before you now and beseech you to please care for the souls of these precious ones in our space program who gave their lives in the quest for greater knowledge of the Cosmos which you created. Take these precious souls in your arms and place them gently into the highest places in your Mansion that you possibly can. Heal their souls of any wounds which the trauma may have caused them. Comfort their souls as they leave behind their friends and families.

Hold their friends and families close to your heart and give them legions of comfort angels. Help them to find strength in you during this period of intense raw pain. Help their families gracefully adjust to the changes in dynamics which occur when we lose dear ones. Protect these ones who are very much in the public eye. Let them know that we CARE about them. Guide the media personnel in their efforts to gain stories for those of us who do care. Let them be sensitive to the pain of these precious souls who have lost so much while those stories are gathered.

Father, we pray for the people in the space program who were involved in this mission. We ask that you will guide them in finding out the root cause/s so that any future reoccurence may never happen again. We further ask that you will enlighten people who find debris as to the importance of it being turned in to authorities. One just never knows which little bit might spell the key for us to understand the disaster. Please Lord, if there is such a piece or pieces, please let them be found and turned in by unselfish citizens.

Father, we ask for your mercy and care not only for the souls involved in this national tragedy, but for any and all who have given their lives wearing our military uniforms. We have had recent helicopter crashes and other incidents where we have lost soldiers. Father, we include them and their families in our prayers. We continue to pray for all of our military who are actively serving in any capacity, and their families.

Father, guide all of our leaders in their decisions which are needing to be made. Especially give our President grace and wisdom in his decisions to deploy our forces. We pray and trust that whenever he bows his head in prayer, which he has indicated he does do, that he will have an extraordinary ablility to hear Your words and guidance. We support him and lift him up in our prayers and are grateful that you have allowed us to have in office one who does sincerely believe and depend upon the arm of the Lord. We would ask that each and every person in office or who is in a leadership and decision-making capacity also have an extraordinary ability to hear heavenly guidance when they bow their heads in prayer. We are in a very crucial time in many levels and many fronts, Lord, and we have never needed your intercession more. Grant us that intercession, our Father! Grant us the vision as a united people that we need in order to allow your own divine plan for our nation and civilization to be made manifest.

Father, we place all of this upon the altar and we give gratitude and praise to you that you do indeed hear and answer our prayers. We ask that all of our prayers will be adjusted according to thy will, for we do not wish to pray amiss in any way whatsoever. In the name of the Everlasing Word,

Amen"

[Calvinist_Dark_Lord]

With all our technology, why haven't we upgraded our orbital capacities as far as the public knows? We've had the money and the capacity. Some would say the will has been lacking. I think it's the permission.

It is a very hard concept to explain. The space program was Gov. controlled in the beginning because an imperative, generated by the realisation of the Soviet Space programme, required the rapid mobilisation that a government is capable of when the necessity arises.

There are things we are very good at, military for example, but there is always beaurocratic inertia. The Aegis system for example, one of the finest anti air platforms ever designed, is controlled by a computer that is 1970's technology. One would think they would have been upgraded by now, after all, how much does a new Dell cost?

There was, until today, no urgency such as that which put man on the Moon in less than 10 years of manned space flight, or built an atomic bomb in less than 5 years (from the time of the Einstein letter to FDR).

You know that "heads will roll" over this matter. Perhaps there will be more of a civillian imput to NASA, perhaps just increased Gov. attention, but you know that the status quo died with those seven heros.

[hillsborofox]

Beautiful prayer, Texokie. Thank you and amen.

[MrNatural]

..Control freaks like to control..

That is so, and the truth is that most people don't even mind; they don't really
want freedom, they just want a fair ruler.

I think as the prophesies begin to unfold, they will be easy to see, not hidden.
So I don't think we're quite there yet. But, who knows. As the Man said, we
are not to know the day or the hour...

[Connservative]

I'm not sure it has been mentioned yet, but what effect do you all think the Columbia tragedy will have on W's war plans?

You know that the left will attempt to paint Bush as heartless for going on with his plans despite the tragedy.

My heart goes out for the astronauts and their families, but this doesn't make the threat of Saddam disappear. I just hope that the media replays the comments from Iraqi officials regarding the tragedy.

[Quix]

I think with any large organization or human structure,

THE STATUS QUO

needs to die or be killed deliberately at least every 5-7 years and sometimes more often.

Thanks for your kind reply.

I've been in the Navy. I'm familiar with inertia. Thankfully, for 2 years I worked in a human relations project ran by Chaplains that delighted in doing end runs around the bureaucracy. And usually, I was the one who had to actually do the end running.

[Calvinist_Dark_Lord]

You keep bringing up interesting things.

Please forgive me for being a bit off topic, but perhaps i can make this germaine to the thread.

We should not equate these professionals with military combat commanders. These professionals at NASA are doing what they can to make the number of take offs and (soft)landings equal for their astronauts. A combat commander gives orders knowing that he has just sent some of his boys to their deaths. That takes quite a different type of detachment. The best of them see the faces of everyone who they ever met who died under their command every night in their dreams...Read about MacAuthur's brigade on the Romainge Heights during WWI. He could not talk about it without tears till the day he died.

[Quix]

You might add this to your reading--just came in. Via Meri's Apostles N Prophets AP List.

Some sobering thoughts related to the Columbia disaster. . . and our Nation at this point in world geopolitical dynamics vis a vis Israel.

breakup of the Columbia/Robyn Green
Meri Burlingame
Feb 2, 2003

This warning was given prophetically in 1996 (see

HERE: www.ortzion.org/yrs_impact.html, and the "fall out" and "debris" of American Government and Economy in 1979, see vision of

HERE: www.ortzion.org/news35_2.html).

The warning on Iraq was given this month (1/03) at:

HERE: www.ortzion.org/news45_1.html The specific judgments on the area of the River Euphrates are given in Rev. 9:13-19. Done out of G-d's timing, it could surely be worse than even what is spoken in this Scripture: v. 15: "And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men." That's ONE-THIRD of mankind! Now is NOT the time for this to happen.

Since George W. Bush is from Texas, and has not listened to G-d's prophets regarding Israel and Iraq, this judgment was specifically allowed over Palestine, Texas. G-d Almighty is connecting George W. Bush and his presidency specifically with the "disintegration of Columbia". Columbia is a term used to define America. The leadership of this nation and Israel specifically, and other nations as well in partnership with these two, need to repent of their intentions to divide up G-d's land of Israel to the Palestinians, allowing terrorists to have their own nation. Division in "Columbia", or America, will result from dividing up Israel.

[Guess I'm regretfully increasingly coming around to agreeing with the above paragraph based only on the U.S. pressuring Israel to allow a Palestinian nation on the West Bank.]

America, i.e., President George W. Bush, has a choice, as the Israelites had when standing between Mt. Gerizim and Mt. Ebal: on one was written a curse, on the other a blessing, and Israel was told to choose the blessing, to choose life. If this President continues with the establishment of a state of Palestine upon the Land G-d covenanted with an OATH by His own Name and holiness, he chooses the curse. However, if he will stand AGAINST dividing up G-d's own Land, standing WITH Israel, he chooses G-d's blessing for America.

If there is no repentance, the resulting fall out and DEBRIS from such a decision to not repent, will be the division, disintegration and explosion of America. This is a call to repentance for George W. Bush specifically, and Ariel Sharon, for their arrogance in allowing G-d's sovereign land to be divided.

This is not something that the Church as a whole can intercede at this point and repent for.......these leaders are being required to do it now. George W. Bush is also attempting to lead the U.S. to a war outside of G-d's timing. Repentance is being sought by G-d for that as well. Repentance and a decision to stand WITH Israel, in humility on the part of all leaders, will result in G-d turning from this judgment. This nation and Israel jointly have sowed this judgment, and they are reaping it today. It is a harsh word, we know, but G-d is crying over these deaths, just as we are.

The Details: The L-rd is saying to pay very close attention to minute details concerning this tragedy. He is speaking through many of the details:

The very first witness account was by a woman from PALESTINE, TX, who could not SEE ANYTHING because of dense FOG, but who HEARD a loud boom, a noise like a TRAIN running through the property. She runs a horse ranch.

Meaning: just as the nations suffer from “dense fog” (i.e. from deception, lack of insight and understanding, lacking “vision” of what the Middle East conflict over the Land of Israel is all about), over the Palestinian craving to establish the state of Palestine upon the ruins of the state of Israel, so there was dense fog over this TEXAN “Palestine”: the American President from the state of Texas has his understanding “fogged up” with his drive to establish a state of Palestine upon the covenanted Land. Horses are symbolic of power. This woman was a symbol of the FOG covering the political world about spiritual and warfare realities in giving the Palestinians their own nation on Israel's soil. It took a very loud BOOM to make her hear, but she still could not see anything as, prophetically enough, her area of Palestine, Texas was encased in fog while the rest of Texas was having a clear sky.

By the way, Texas is "the Lone Star state". Do we really want to be going it alone against Iraq? G-d seems to be saying "no" to this war's timing, and especially the mentality that WE ALONE (the U.S.) can conquer world terrorism. There is a humility that G-d is looking for - there will be NO PERMANENT PEACE until He who is the Prince of Peace returns. The arrogance of statements in the State of the Union address of 1/28 regarding our calling as a nation to make sure global terrorism is defeated are being challenged by G-d. G-d will surely help us if we advance in agreement and communion with HIM; if we approach Iraq in His timing, in His strategy, in His way. Not any other way.

Every witness told of the LOUD BOOM FIRST!

[Q: Not SURE how much of the rest of it I'd agree to but it is sobering to prayerfully ponder.]

[tiki]

You nailed it. America is America because we DO care. We care about an astronaut that we've never even heard about until today. We care about the the oppressed and tortured in Iraq and the starving in Africa.

Some may say that we don't but America is the most compassionate, giving country in the world and we mourn, especially if we lose one of our own.

I think Conservababe is coming from an occupation that sees death often and has learned to cope by not letting herself feel and I understand but there is nothing wrong with a few tears on TV or in private.

[Quix]

well said.

Thanks for a kind reply.

[Quix]

MUCH AGREE.

THANKS.

[Dick Bachert]

[Conservababe]

We should not equate these professionals with military combat commanders. These professionals at NASA are doing what they can to make the number of take offs and (soft)landings equal for their astronauts. A combat commander gives orders knowing that he has...

Bullshit. They know the risks of their profession just as the military.

[Calvinist_Dark_Lord]

I'm not sure it has been mentioned yet, but what effect do you all think the Columbia tragedy will have on W's war plans?

Would you want a leftist trying to exploit a tragedy? No more than the real ones do i imagin. They would get "killed" in public opinion, and they probably know that.

i am against the war as it is being planned. We are using a "sledge hammer" when we need a "small hatchet". There is no need for a full scale invasion of Iraq. You really think their military wants some more of what they got the last time? They're not stupid, even if their leader is. If we want those WMD sites gone, they can disappear tomorrow...we know where they are. We can close the entire Iraqui border, and not let so much as a jackle cross it, and there is not a thing Saddam Halfwit can do about it. One fuel-air bomb on those WMD sites, and they don't exist any more...Who could stop us?

Getting back to point though, look for the Left to exploit, but not in a "directly detrimental" fashion. Some of those old Leftists were around in the Glory Days of the Space Programme, they have their own emotional attachments to it.

[Conservababe]

We care about the the oppressed and tortured in Iraq and the starving in Africa.

Do you really care? I don't and I would venture a guess that most American citizens don't either.

[Calvinist_Dark_Lord]

Bullshit. They know the risks of their profession just as the military.

Get real, lots of jobs are dangerous, but nobody sent those people up knowing they were going to die. When was the last time you heard of someone shooting at a space craft?

[Conservababe]

You must be young or very foolish to think that the space frontier is a safe job. LOL

[EternalVigilance]

On a clear summer night back in 1983, I was standing by an Iowa road. One of my trucks had broken down, and I was fixing it.

It was one of those nights you don't forget; the stars were out in all their glory, the wide belt of the Milky Way above me. It was not possible to be out there under that sky and not look up in wonder.

Suddenly my eye was drawn to the southeast. A streak of fire was rising into that gorgeous night sky; arching gracefully but forcefully upwards.

I had been busy with work, not paying any attention to the news. But it didn't take a genius to figure out what it was: the Space Shuttle Columbia blasting off on what I believe was the first night launch.

It was amazing, a sight I will always remember.

A few years later I saw Columbia riding atop its 747---they made a flyaround and stopover in Omaha at Offutt Airbase, then the home of the Strategic Air Command.

Those are the two times I laid eyes on Columbia---experiences I will always treasure in my heart.

[Calvinist_Dark_Lord]

You must be young or very foolish to think that the space frontier is a safe job. LOL

Compared to what? The NYPD/FD?..How about a Package store clerk? Coal Miner? Michael Jackson's kids?

My point was this: NASA did not send 7 people up to die and Combat commanders often DO! It simply takes a different sort of personal detachment to knowingly send people out to die.

[Conservababe]

My dear, all of the above mentioned, by you, know the risks.