A crime against Americans

The problem is that, in my experience, managers are actually willing to pay a premium for Indians. They're more polite and deferential, and they can't quit, and that gives the manager a good power trip.

People wonder why of all the one million h1b visas issued about half are for programmers and most of the rest are for engineers or high-tech people of some sort. When the program itself allows people to import any kind of worker and the paperwork costs 2 grand. It is because american programmers understand their own value, they understand the manager doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground, the americans are bold cowboys and very creative, but if they have a manager asshole to work for that they don't like they'll tell him off or else quit. The americans are typical americans. You have to pay them for their value. When the manager throws their labor down the drain with stupid decisions they will screw the manager over big-time. The more talented the programmer the more likely he is to kick the manager's ass when the time comes. The Indians are by their culture deferential ass-kissers. And they can't quit. So, managers prefer them of course.

Everyone who knows anything knows that since 1790 we americans have been the great inventors and innovators in this world. People have done studies and concluded that more than 50% of worthwhile inventions are american sourced. The foreigners talk about our awesome creativity. It is the managerial class that does not understand nor respect the mindset of a person who would do programming. Who knows how much the opportunity cost is that they don't want to use the american sources for these people. It is impossible to measure and the class warfare is such that we are considered racists if we even think about the great track record of american achievement in these fields.

Sport. Torturing leftists. 365 day season, no bag limit.

It ain't a crime. It's globalization...

One of the published goals of the NWO types is to reduce America to a third world country. Globalization is to "normalize" the standard of living across all nations. Studies indicate that the "normal" standard of living is not characterized by that found in the United States simply because world resources cannot support the entire planet at our rate of consumption. The obvious solution is to lower the standard of living in the United States to what others "enjoy".

Bear in mind that those changes will not affect the ruling elite. It will, on the other hand, affect you. If you imagine engineering to be a matter of rote, I can assure you that your job is also a matter of rote. If you imagine that you will be an IT manager being paid 20 times that of the imported help, I can see why you think software is produced by rote.

very funny response, you don't let nobody rile you, that's good.

If employers give all of the jobs to people overseas, there will be no one to purchase the products in this country

Here's the problem: Most Americans, including myself up until very recently, have asked the question "But if they move the jobs offshore, we wont be able to buy their products!" I've come to realize that THEY DON'T CARE!

There are 6.3 billion people in the world. That's 6,300,000,000 potential consumers. Only 280 million of those are Americans, and less than 200 million of us are in any real "consumer" demographic (fiscally or physically). In other words, the United States only accounts for about 3% of the world’s population and 3% of the worlds consumers. From these companies’ points of view, they are MUCH better off abandoning the U.S. market and going global than they are concentrating on us.

What they miss, of course, is the fact that they are stable only so long as we are. When the U.S. economy disintegrates, so will the country, and so will its military. Without a strong U.S., what is going to stop the Indian or Chinese governments from claiming these businesses for themselves? Only the fear of repercussions from our government prevents foreign governments from interfering with our offshore businesses. When they've destroyed the U.S. through this globalism, they lose their protection.

IMO; we need to fix this problem through a few simple legal changes. 1) Eliminate the H and L programs for foreign workers, and instate an open system that forces companies to prove that an acceptable candidate doesn't exist here already. This process should include the requirement that the job be advertised through major media outlets coast to coast for at least 90 days without an acceptable applicant. If they can prove that, they can bring in a foreign worker. BUT...that foreign worker should only be brought in for the specific job, for a maximum of two years, and should have no option to remain in the U.S. afterwards. At the end of two years, the search should have to be opened up again before another foreign worker can be brought in. In addition, these companies should have to PROVE that the foreign worker is actually doing the job that was advertised. Too many companies, as the article describes, use these visas to bring in friends and family that have nothing to do with the advertised jobs. To them, the visa program is nothing but a way to dodge the regular immigration procedures. Since MANY H1B's are from Pakistan, northern India, and other muslim rich areas, any company bringing these people in should be subject to frequent random audits.

2) We should slap an immediate 100% tax on any wages paid to foreign workers in the U.S. (not counting permanent green card holders, visiting foreign students working their way through college, or workers in seasonal agricultural or construction trades), a 200% tax on wages paid to foreign workers outside the U.S., and a 100% tax on ANY labor that is outsourced to foreign companies. To be fair, there should be an exemption to this law: If the company can prove that NO U.S. employee, company, or corporation that can provide these same services for a reasonably competitive sum, then they should be exempted from these taxes. To keep all this straight, I'd suggest setting up a new "mini-court" just to settle disputes by both companies and workers.

3) I would like to see the American tax laws changed so that corporations not consisting of at least 50% American citizens and workers would be forced to qualify as foreign companies, and then be subject to a higher income tax rate.

Harsh? Sure, but I'd point out that even the founding fathers of this country recognized the need to protect American industry and jobs, and declared that one of the main jobs of government is to collect tariffs on incoming foreign goods. Without jobs, the U.S. is doomed to collapse...a fact these companies don't care about. ANY group or business that assists in the collapse of the U.S. government should be branded an enemy of the nation, and then treated as such. I'm a capitalist, but NO capitalist company has the right to assist in the wholesale destruction of a society and a nation!

The Americans are typical Americans. You have to pay them for their value.

Hear, hear!

I like the way you shoot. Your replies have been "right in there".

Excellent reply!

Yeah, its getting back to that "United We Stand" talk that is done by rote.

Even in medieval times the kings had crystal chandeliers on golden frames, with stunning artwork adorning the walls. There is, indeed, no concern for the welfare of the Nation or its citizens.

Eventually, however, consumer goods like TVs and computers will sell like hot-cakes ... just like they do in Afghanistan.

Professor Matloff's 200 page document below will explain to you what H1b is and its' significance.

http://heather.cs.ucdavis.edu/itaa.real.html

Matloff documents that h1b is an ethnic cleansing program, that young americans will not be successful in engineering & programming. Imagine, the computer science undergrads in american universities today are 94% american and their numbers have increased by 50% in less than 10 years. But few are able to get a real shot at a career and most of those even will be pushed out by age 40. You can't increase the supply of people in these fields by sending negative market forces to americans who want towork in this field.

http://www.zazona.com/LCA-Data/AdvQuery.asp

This link above allows you to search a database of h1b hires. Search in your city and see what kinds of jobs are filled in your city because of the shortage of workers. It will blow you away what they're doing.

when I was re-hired it wasn't because of any specific technical skills but because of my specific business knowledge that I acquired in my last job.

I hear you. I've been off for a year, now. Finally began to wise up and quit playing the technical skills game and am playing up my business experience and support skills.

No job yet -- but for the first time, some interest is being shown.

I'll add my two cents. 3 or 4 years ago when all the projections indicated that the U.S. could never fill the demand for programmers, I was in favor of relaxed restrictions on foreigners. Made economic sense to me at the time.

Who could have predicted this bubble-burst (and anyone who claims he did is lying). Add to that the fact that since about 1995 everyone's kid and kid brother went to college for Comp-Sci.

The "rote" jobs are going overseas. Maybe we'll start to get back to the more traditional liberal arts education where people specialize in a field; but also learn about the world outside comp-sci.

CHeck this..
http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1107-983066.html

H1B's does more good than bad.

H1B's does more good than bad.

Yeah, right. IT is awash with people out of jobs, but the government and industry says we need more? From the article:

First, consider that H-1B is a very limited program. Assuming the 2000 statistics are correct, the maximum number of new H-1B computer professionals who would enter the market is 105,300 (54% of 195,000). The total number of computer professionals in the United States, according to a 2001 Labor Department study, is approximately 2.8 million. This means that the percentage increase in the number of workers available is 3.7%, hardly an increase that would seriously affect salaries.

Now, let's say the unemployment in IT mirrors the rate in the economy in general - six percent. And now you add 3.7 percent more workers competing for the same scarce openings. The impact is then far more profound on those seeking jobs.

H1-B is based on a lie. Until it is based on a truth, that there are a shortage of qualified positions, it should be suspended.

BTW, there was plenty of other B.S. in that Z-D article as well. And the author was, surprise, an owner of a software company who has a vested interest in keeping down IT salaries.

Welcome to FR, and realize that we're a lot harder to bamboozle than the average bear.

Yeah ur right.

Now, let's say the unemployment in IT mirrors the rate in the economy in general - six percent. And now you add 3.7 percent more workers competing for the same scarce openings. The impact is then far more profound on those seeking jobs.

But the reality is that even H1B's are affected with this economic downturn, infact more than citizens here. I agree this is the hard time for everyone, that does not mean these H1B's are culprits.

Dont be oppurtunist. If people are required then they are hired else they are fired. Who are the people who make the policies here? It sounds like a Use&Throw attitude. Get workers when u need and throw them when u dont need. Everyone was happy when economy was booming and who was responsible for so much work being done in US, even H1B's were part of that. Even they helped pump the economy, its the stupid executives who screwed everyone here with false hopes, wrong analysing or whatever. There will be no H1B's in this screwed up system at this level.

I agree its kind of frustrating to everyone to be without work. But dont just blame someone for our faults just for the heck of it.

But dont just blame someone for our faults just for the heck of it.

Look, the entire H1-B program was based on the premise that there was a shortage of IT workers in this country. But that shortage is gone, and we now have a surplus. I'm not saying kick out folks who are already here on H1-B visas, just curtail the program and not let additional workers in for the foreseeable future, because employers are now using it to drive down wages - and that affects EVERYONE working in IT, both American citizens and current H1-B visa holders.