Six Republican Senators Turn Against Bush on ANWR

Reuters ^ | 1/31/03

[alaskanfan]

In 20 years the infrastructure to extract and deliver the oil from ANWR will not be in place as it is today. I guess you probably didn't know that.

Perhaps a more responsible plan would be to drill and develop ANWR now, while we R&D fuel cell technology.

Independence from even a small part of foreign oil would do wonders for our nation.

The fact that you are employed in the Alaska oilfields makes you blind to the future of America.

I'm not certain what sort of future you project for the U.S. but I don't think we can survive for long on service sector jobs, welfare, and government papershuffling.

[HoustonCurmudgeon]

10 years is way to long. It wont take that long.

..... and what business are you in?

[jimkress]

The senators said drilling in the Alaskan refuge is an important policy issue that should be openly debated, not slipped into an unrelated bill.

Hard to argue with this. Attaching an obviously political hot potato to an unrelated piece of high priority legislation is a tactic we have long held in contempt, when the Left has done it. Unless we wish to engage in the Left's tactics of hypocrisy we should not do what we have condemned in them.

[alaskanfan]

He must have retired to Red Square.

[KQQL]

Vote update:---

2002 ANWR VOTE
5 Democrats broke with their party and voted in favor of drilling and in favor of invoking cloture.
Sens. John Breaux (La.),
Mary Landrieu (La.),
Zell Miller (Ga.),
Daniel Akaka (Hawaii)
Daniel Inouye (Hawaii).

( I wonder how Pryor-D will vote ?) and can Nelson-D NE arm twisted in votiing for ANWR?)
....................................

On the other side of the fence, eight Republicans voted against the amendment,
Sens. Olympia Snowe (Maine),
@John McCain (Ariz.),
Bob Smith (N.H.), ( HE's GONE ....AKA SORE LOSER )
Gordon Smith (Ore.), ( Interesting..He didn't sign up for letter )
Lincoln Chafee (R.I.),
Susan Collins (Maine)
Mike DeWine (Ohio).

I know Coleman has said he will vote against ANWR, but he didn't sign the letter..and Spector voted for it the last time around..

[white trash redneck]

Six of the Senate's 51 Republicans, including former presidential candidate John McCain of Arizona...

The senators said drilling in the Alaskan refuge is an important policy issue that should be openly debated, not slipped into an unrelated bill.

As I recall, this is vintage McInsane practice.

[stalin]

There's no way it will take 20 years unless you plan on building a pipeline to the oilfields. It shouldn't take more than 4 once we are ready. Even drilling in the ocean doesn't take that long.

Are you trying to say that moving a rig to a site and starting to pump takes 20 years ? That wont take 20 years. Getting it to market would have to be by truck and tanker instead of pipeline.

I'm not opposed to getting ready to drill. I am opposed to using much of our recourses before we extract everyone else's. That's not smart economics. It is short term profit taking without regard to the long term future of the economy.

We should be ready when the time comes that other cheaper sources run out.
Until then we should make certain that we have access to o recourses. We do and we will continue to if we play our cards right. We have the muscle militarily politically and economically. Those go together , of course.

It will not appreciably change our economy to use others raw materials to run our economy accept to help it in the long run. Japan became the worlds 2nd largest economy largely by using our recourses.

Yes , some may have to find a diff jobs for a while or move if they want to drill oil for a living. You want to drill because it makes money for you now where you want to live. Oil companies want to drill because it makes money for them in the near future if the price stays high.

If we wait ,as a nation , and think about the future instead of just short term , that price will be higher and the US will have oil while no one else ( that was foolish enough to sell their recourses while the price was low ) does.
That will make us even more of a superpower.

If we use up ours first your grandchildren will be up sh** creek without a paddle. We will be at their mercy and we will have to use force to get access to oil. By the time that happens those countries will have nukes and it will be politically impossible to take it by force - say Goodbye US economy.

We are moving rapidly in the direction of using ours up first because people tend to think of their own short term self interest.

We must secure access by force now , while we still can , and pump theirs until it is dry ...... then pump ours.

[SMGFan]

Of course you meant up for reelection in 2004 not 2005, 2006 not 2007 and 2008 not 2009.

[stalin]

I teach high school science and math. Please read my previous post to alaskafan.

I don't pretend to be an oil man but it is ridiculous to say that it will take 20 or even 10 years if we get ready to do it before we need to. That means getting the red tape out of the way first.

Please explain why you think ( if you do ) it will take ten years to drill once we are ready to do it.

I should have asked alaskafan to explain why he thinks it will take 20.

[stalin]

Drilling in the Alaskan refuge is an important policy issue that should be openly debated, not slipped into an unrelated bill.

[Wild Irish Rogue]

" Of course you meant up for reelection in 2004 not 2005, 2006 not 2007 and 2008 not 2009. "

I got the info from senate.gov re: the different classes:Class I,II and III,but your numbers make sense,I didn't even stop to think about it.

[Terriergal]

Well Olympia Snowe was no surprise.

[Wormwood]

In other news: Democrats maintain control of Senate, 55-45

[alaskanfan]

You said:
You want to take a buck today instead of 100 in 20 years or 1000 in 40. 180 posted on 01/31/2003 7:46 PM PST by stalin

I said:
In 20 years the infrastructure to extract and deliver the oil from ANWR will not be in place as it is today. I guess you probably didn't know that.

In 20 years (the ammount of time you think we should wait) the TAPS will be 50 years old and near the end of it's useful life. Moving the crude by tanker or truck from Alaska's north coast to an open port with tanker loading capabilities is totally unrealistic.

Your speculation as to the economic viability of waiting makes no sense whatsoever. If the oil companies have to rebuild or replace parts of the TAPS, which is paid for at this point in time, recovery of oil costs are substantially increased.

Your time frame from drilling to production is probably a little more realistic than the ten years that I have seen on other posts. I would estimate five to seven years from drilling to production, only because a pipeline would have to be built from the ANWR production facility to the existing infrastructure in Deadhorse, a distance of approx. 150 miles, depending on where the production facility is located on the coastal plain.

You would be well served to read some of the posts on this thread prior to posting wild speculation as to the economics of oil production and its effect on our nation. Many of the posts are from people familiar with the oil business and economics, or quoted from experts in that field.

[Terriergal]

You got it right!

[white trash redneck]

This isn't the first important policy issue to be attached to an unrelated bill. McInsane has done it himself.

[jidd23]

I'm not sure about this, but could the dems make a point of order against the drilling in anwar (because it would be put in the budget bill)? Then it would require 60 votes to pass anyway... I remember thats how we got through Bush's original tax cut (by making a point of order against the democratic ammendments). Just something I thought about, I might be completely off base.

[techcor]

Excellent points but my view is one from stategery. I don't think the coal gassifiers (there's one in the U.S. and China also is starting one) can actually produce at a point that the oil companies can't under sell. But that's the purpose. To make the oil companies increase production to undermine the coal companies.

[alaskanfan]

What dollar figure would crude need to attain before the coal gassifiers are competetive?

[YoungKentuckyConservative]

Good. It's foolish to pump our oil now. I'm not against drilling anwar in the future if the price goes to $40 a berrel but the cost of drilling is much higher than the price of oil will be after we take Iraq. It's not smart to drill now.

The opposite couldn't be more true. What if the war "doesn't" go as planned. To "plan" for a specific result is ludicrous. Always prepare and expect the unexpected. What if Venezuela turns full-blown Communist and we can't address that issue until later? What is Russia, the psuedo-capitalis, not sure if its a dictatorship or not, decides to turn on us? We don't necessarly need to start pumping at maximum capacity, but with Al Gore bleeding our military reserves during the dark days of Clinto-nista, we've GOT to have our own backup plan.

Oil is the lifeblood of our military and our lifestyle. We've got to be self-sufficient for a given period of time should it become necessary. To think otherwise is naive.