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To: weikel
I'm with you sentience is the true descriptive factor of being a human being. There is no doubt that sperm, egg, zygote, etc. is human, and alive, but what is the quality of being human that separates me from a cell, or group of cells? It's that I know I'm alive.
87 posted on 01/31/2003 6:53:56 PM PST by realpatriot71 (legalize freedom!)
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To: realpatriot71; weikel
Re your: sentience is the true descriptive factor of being a human being. My question to you both is simple: President Reagan is no longer sentient, he lacks the quality of being human that you use for your arguments. What would you do with our great Gipper? See below, he refuted your position directly.

--President Ronald Reagan spoke with Conviction about abortion and the Right to life of the unborn. In fact, he even issued a Proclamation of Their Personhood and Dignity Following are a few other brief Excerpts from his comments.

"My Administration is dedicated to the preservation of America as a Free land, and there is no cause More important for preserving That freedom than affirming the transcendent right to life of all human beings, the right without which no other rights have any meaning." Abortion and the Conscience of the Nation First Appeared in The Human Life Review Spring 1983

"Every legislator, every doctor, and every citizen needs to recognize that the real issue is whether to affirm and protect the sanctity of all human life, or to embrace a social ethic where some human lives are valued and others are not. As a nation, we must choose between the sanctity of life ethic and the 'quality of life' ethic. IBID.

More from Renauldus Maximus

"The real question today is not when human life begins, but, What is the value of human life? The abortionist who reassembles the arms and legs of a tiny baby to make sure all its parts have been torn from its mother's body can hardly doubt whether it is a human being. The real question for him and for all of us is whether that tiny human life has a God-given right to be protected by the law -- the same right we have." IBID.

"I have often said that when we talk about abortion, we are talking about two lives -- the life of the mother and the life of the unborn child. Why else do we call a pregnant woman a mother? I have also said that anyone who doesn't feel sure whether we are talking about a second human life should clearly give life the benefit of the doubt. If you don't know whether a body is alive or dead, you would never bury it. I think this consideration itself should be enough for all of us to insist on protecting the unborn." IBID.

"A Senate committee hearing was held recently to determine, if we can, when life actually begins. And there was exhaustive testimony of experts presenting both views, and finally the result was declared inconclusive. They couldn't arrive at an answer. Well, in my view alone, they did arrive at an answer, an answer that justifies the proposed (human life) legislation. If it's true we don't know when the unborn becomes a human life, then we have to opt in favor that it is a human life until someone proves it isn't." Remarks at the Centennial Meeting of the Supreme Council of the Knights of Columbus Hartford, CT 8/3/82

"And I just happen to believe that simple morality dictates that unless and until someone can prove the unborn human is not alive, we must give it the benefit of the doubt and assume it is. And thus, it should be entitled to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." Remarks at the Alfred M. Landon Lecture Series on Public Issues Manhattan, KS 9/9/82

88 posted on 01/31/2003 9:13:45 PM PST by cpforlife.org
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To: realpatriot71
This is Samuel's Fetal Surgery: Samuel Armas Photo 8/19/99; Born 12/2/99 Photo by: Michael Clancy

This photo is another Fetal Surgery of: Sara Switzer Photo: 7/1/99; Born 8/22/99

Samuel - Picture taken on Sunday April 23 2000 12:47 PM Source Holding Hands, the Story of Samuel Armas

realpatriot71, your home page says that you are a med student and that you are….pro-life! These children being operated on are not self aware yet. Are they expendable under your sentience is the true descriptive factor of being a human being.

This culture Desperately needs you to be a great pro-life doc! PLEASE learn the truth. Then live and practice it in your field without compromise!

Your friend and fellow patriot

90 posted on 01/31/2003 10:14:59 PM PST by cpforlife.org
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To: realpatriot71
"... but what is the quality of being human that separates me from a cell, or group of cells? It's that I know I'm alive.

When you say you know you are alive, what is it in you, exactly, that knows this?

96 posted on 01/31/2003 11:49:39 PM PST by unspun ("The greatest oak was once a little nut, who held its ground.")
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To: realpatriot71
That knowledge is not present at birth, realpatriot.
You are describing a function or capacity that we can assume will be present in the human if we don't kill him early in life. Must every function that is considered normal for a species be present at the moment you decide whether he has the human right not to be killed?
How many qualifications, to what extent, where is the bar? I could decide that I will recognize only a minimum IQ or skin color or birth nation or.....
Why should I respect your criteria for quality of being?
If you only hold to personal criteria or to the majority or strongest rule, then we are each at risk: we are only one vote or one ruling or one coup away from being declared "non-persons."
183 posted on 02/02/2003 10:01:32 PM PST by hocndoc
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