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To: DFSchmidt
You claim that a younger universe implies a speed of light slower than a cheetah. Perhaps if only one independent variable were previously introduced and then removed, the observations of today become normalized with Scriptural record. Just imagine if multiple variable ever existed throughout eternity past and possibly modified over the same remote epoch.

I've discovered that when one works with exponentials, the consequence of error or mistaken assumption can make gross distortions of how we understand physical phenomenon to occur. Especially when one deals with orders of magnitude greater than 4-6, considerable effects and side-effects of magnitude are significant to lessor ranges within possible domains.

I simply haven't seen the incontrovertible arguments which would override Scripture. At best they might imply a different interpretation of a literal Genesis account, but even this Herculean attempt has yet to have received even a sophomoric approach in deduction.

I have observed many academics who have virtually no grasp of Scripture and worse have insisted upon ignorance of Scripture in order to satisfy arrogant beliefs of self importance. Why should any student respect a 'professor' who lacks the academic discipline to even read the Bible. Such a trait lays testimony to academia's lack of trustworthiness in a truthful quest of knowledge.

There was a time when the majority of academia did believe in God. I don't find this condition to exist in academia today. Along with that dearth of faith exudes a contagion for arrogance and affinity for ignorance of Scripture.
291 posted on 02/02/2003 7:08:37 AM PST by Cvengr
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To: Cvengr
Cvengr, I gotta apologize, my initial logic was wrong, so don't waste your time arguing against it - See here:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/832645/posts?page=293#293

Neither of us caught it at the time, but the speed of light needs to be much faster, not much slower. Think about it some more, read what I've written, and you'll see what I mean.

With that said, of course small errors are magnified when you involve exponentials, and of course more variables complicate things. Einstein's hidden-variable hypothesis, making the universe deterministic, has been pretty effectively refuted, however, and with respcet to the speed of light, a change of at least six orders of magnitude cannot be so easily dismissed. At any rate, as I try to ahow i the above link, this idea of the speed of light being that much faster contradicts Genesis anyway, so the point is moot.

Likewise, and I'll say it again, we cannot so easily brush aside the matter of intrepretation. There are numerous clear examples in the Bible where the descriptions given, when taken literally, are physically inaccurate, and demonstrably so. This does not invalidate the Bible! But when we talk about the Flood, and how "all the fountains of the great deep burst forth, and all the windows of the heavens were opened", we know that this is a metaphor for one heck of a lot of rain! That doesn't literally mean that Heaven above is full of water, and that God in Heaven dumped it on us, does it?

More examples here of why it is dangerous to take the Bible completely literally:

http://users.pipeline.com.au/groucho/Documents/The_biblical_flat_earth.PDF

This doesn't mean we shouldn't take some things literally - "Thou shalt not kill," for instance, I take pretty literally. But it is very clear that A.) metaphor is used often in the Bible and B.) that we must therefore address the matter of interpretation.

As for you not seeing incontrovertible arguments to override the Scripture, I agree! We're saying the same thing - The idea that the universe is 10-20 billion years old does not override the Scripture - The two are consistent, when one recognizes the use of metaphor. This is a simple matter of the best hypothesis fitting all of the observations.

I have observed many academics who have virtually no grasp of Scripture and worse have insisted upon ignorance of Scripture in order to satisfy arrogant beliefs of self importance.

I believe you! That's irrelevant to the argument, though; there are plenty of religious folks who have insisted on ignorance of science in order to satisfy those same sorts of beliefs. I do not believe that either of us could be described as such people, however - I'm certainly willing to gives folks the benefit of the doubt, until such time as things are proven otherwise. It's not fair of me to assume anything about you or anyone else here, since I don't know you.

Why should any student respect a 'professor' who lacks the academic discipline to even read the Bible.

LOL! As someone here once told me, "with all due respect, there's no way you could possibly know that." In addition, I will quote you this excerpt from Dr. Dini's autobiographical sketch (found here):

"My education has taken place almost entirely in Roman Catholic schools...Though accepted to UCLA, I instead chose to enter a Roman Catholic order of teaching brothers (the Brothers of the Christian Schools, known in the U.S. simply as the Christian Brothers). As a young brother, I majored in biology and minored in religious studies at St. Mary's College, Moraga, California. I graduated magna cum laude in 1977 and was assigned by my religious superiors to teach at La Salle High School in Pasadena, California, where I remained for 4 years, teaching various courses in biology and religion and earning a California Secondary Teaching Credential. In 1981, I was assigned to Justin-Siena High School in Napa, California, where I again taught various courses in biology and religion."

So unless he's a complete liar, there's basically no way that he went to Roman Catholic school and didn't study the bible. The man even taught religion. This is a good example of why it's dangerous to jump to conclusions, or rush to judge people.

Such a trait lays testimony to academia's lack of trustworthiness in a truthful quest of knowledge.

Wait a minute - You're condemning the whole of academic studies, and everyone in it, because of a few unpleasant people / bad scientists? Wow. I really hope you don't believe that.

I can only say that I am glad people aren't typically so prejudiced versus Christians (despite the Crusades, the Salem Witch Trials, the Inquisition, etc., etc.), or religious persecution would be a way of life, and no one would benefit from the teachings of Christ, and the world would be a lot worse off!!

Please tell me you don't really think this way.

Thanks for reading,

DFS

294 posted on 02/02/2003 3:52:17 PM PST by DFSchmidt
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