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To: Con X-Poser; RadioAstronomer; VadeRetro
If you are an evolutionist, you are un-American.

You are kidding...right? The Founding Fathers were concerned about establishing a nation where everyone was free to worship (or not) as they saw fit. Many of the Colonials had suffered religious persecution in the Old World, and I cannot believe they intended to create a new nation that was fundamentally repressive.

I suppose next you'll be telling us that in order to be "saved", a person must be a Creationist. If so, I challenge you to direct us to the appropriate book, chapter and verse in the Bible.

788 posted on 02/16/2003 9:39:07 PM PST by Aracelis
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To: Con X-Poser; RadioAstronomer; VadeRetro
A quote from a Founding Father youu may find interesting:

"Whilst we assert for ourselves a freedom to embrace, to profess and observe the Religion which we believe to be of divine origin, we cannot deny equal freedom to those whose minds have not yet yielded to the evidence which has convinced us. If this freedom be abused, it is an offense against God, not against man: To God, therefore, not to man, must an account of it be rendered." (James Madison, in Memorial and Remonstrance)

Thus, the obligation falls upon Believers to guarantee the rights of those who do not believe in a God or gods.

789 posted on 02/16/2003 9:55:42 PM PST by Aracelis
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To: Piltdown_Woman
Check out post #756 They laid out their reasoning clearly in that post.

I suppose next you'll be telling us that in order to be "saved", a person must be a Creationist. If so, I challenge you to direct us to the appropriate book, chapter and verse in the Bible.

The Founding Fathers were more concerned with an Old World Church twisting the teachings of Christ and making bogus power grabs with divine authority.

This passage explains how the Father watches over every sparrow as well as knows us intimately. (Exhibiting more than just a Creator but also a concerned Creator actively participating). Then Jesus lays out clearly what "saved" means.

Matt 10:28-35

28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell. 29 Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? Yet not one of them will fall to the ground apart from the will of your Father. 30 And even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. 31 So don’t be afraid; you are worth more than many sparrows. 32“Whoever acknowledges me before men, I will also acknowledge him before my Father in heaven. 33 But whoever disowns me before men, I will disown him before my Father in heaven. 34 “Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to turn “‘a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law— 36 a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household.’

790 posted on 02/16/2003 10:45:48 PM PST by bondserv
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To: Piltdown_Woman
<< I suppose next you'll be telling us that in order to be "saved", a person must be a Creationist. If so, I challenge you to direct us to the appropriate book, chapter and verse in the Bible. >>

I've never specifically claimed that, but there are some Bible verses that lean that way.

John 5:46-47 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. 47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

John 3:12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

Jesus clearly spoke as if He took Genesis literally, referring to Adam of Eve being created and Noah's flood being actual, among other things. I can't perceive how one could trust Jesus as their Saviour while believing He was a liar.
815 posted on 02/17/2003 6:35:51 PM PST by Con X-Poser
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