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The New Global Job Shift
Business Week ^ | Feb 3, 2003 | Cover Story

Posted on 01/29/2003 2:06:28 PM PST by ex-snook

Edited on 04/13/2004 2:16:35 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

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To: ex-snook
bump
41 posted on 01/29/2003 5:34:24 PM PST by Red Jones
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To: SauronOfMordor
"The top 5% pay most of the income taxes. If they take a hit, the revenue that government needs to pay for stuff goes away "

True enough. But the government does not need tax revenues, they borrow and leave it for the next generation to pay. And by that time those in government are long dead but have been re-elected many times. Have you noticed there is little pay-as-you-go talk for the Iraq buildup for war?

42 posted on 01/29/2003 5:38:28 PM PST by ex-snook (It used to be the economy, stupid. Now it's your job, stupid.)
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To: maui_hawaii
"That would be a pretty nifty deal if it wasn't such a lie. It works in some instances, but definitely not all. China is example number 1 why this is wrong. "

Glad you got back. Good observation. We should have only one trade policy - WE BUY FROM YOU - YOU BUY FROM US.

43 posted on 01/29/2003 5:45:18 PM PST by ex-snook (It used to be the economy, stupid. Now it's your job, stupid.)
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To: SauronOfMordor
More to the point, what recourse would you or SGV have if that happens? One big advantage that overseas contractors have is that they are not subject to US law, US lawsuits, and their assets are not seizable by US lawyers. This may be a BIG factor in their competitiveness -- they don't have to worry about complying with EEOC regs, or anything else

You've said a lot there, whether you know it or not. US regulations, EEOC, OSHA, EPA, and the like have choked industry out of the country. Trial lawyers have helped. Between the regulations and trial lawyers, there is probably a business expense that exceeds the cost of wages for American workers.

Inept, non-scientific regulations and greedy, non-productive lawyers have taken a huge toll on this country. Perhaps by design.

44 posted on 01/29/2003 5:49:42 PM PST by meyer
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To: Black Birch
$65K will provide a nice living in my neck of the woods.

No joke, but the official "poverty line" in Manhattan for a family of 4 is ~$75,000.

For a benchmark, the *maintenance* on my ~3,000 sq. ft. apt is close to $4,000. A month. Not including a mortgage.

45 posted on 01/29/2003 5:54:06 PM PST by NativeNewYorker (Freepin' Jew Boy)
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To: ex-snook
WE BUY FROM YOU - YOU BUY FROM US

That'll likely happen, though not forced. When they demand consumer luxuries, who'll design, make and market them? There'll be work down the road, but you have to be flexible.

46 posted on 01/29/2003 5:55:31 PM PST by NativeNewYorker (Freepin' Jew Boy)
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To: Jim Noble
I just don't know what to do about it.

Here is just something to think on...

We don't have free access, nor fair deals, nor any type of thing resembling "trade" with countries like China. We buy a bunch of cheap stuff from them in a glorified purchasing agreement, and every corporate goof thinks is sooo great, but we end up with a HUGE deficit that won't close.

Here is how we should proceed IMO. We should sign free trade agreements with several countries, including labor clauses. We should sign the agreements with countries who have already developed markets, and have been long standing traditional allies of the US. We should NOT have free trade with the world.

Free trade means FAIR trade. Its not a they sell to us, but we can't sell to them kind of deal.

As those FTAs (say with Australia, Mexico, etc) get into place we should raise our across the board tarriffs to about 3-5 times their current level.

That will allow businesses choice, and at the same time, funnel the investment into and through our FTAs (where we have access AND development, which equates to sales opportunities)

As it stands right now for every dollar we import worth of goods or services from Mexico we have about a 75cents export opportunity. With China, for every dollar we import we have about a 15 cents export opportunity. Out of those two, which one is a better overall investment opportunity? In Mexico all we really need to do is ensure that they get manufacturing facilities and we automatically grow our exports. Not so in China. There is no evidence that China will ever represent that 75 cents on the dollar that Mexico represents.

If you compare China to Mexico though, China is cheaper, but does not represent even a fraction of Mexico's market. Hence we can derive that China is nothing more than a parasite who sucks resources from our otherwise strong FTA(s). Mexico would represent a big savings, but China undercuts them in pricing. (Which I have to add, that never gets passed on to the consumer or shareholders).

47 posted on 01/29/2003 5:58:00 PM PST by maui_hawaii
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To: ex-snook; NativeNewYorker
See post 47
48 posted on 01/29/2003 6:00:04 PM PST by maui_hawaii
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To: ex-snook
Re: #47

I can hear the corporate hacks now trying to defend their China investments "But the Chinese are hungry and poor and developing nation..."

They will all of the sudden shift into their 'social responsibility' mode, which they reject most of the time, except for under my idea in #47.

49 posted on 01/29/2003 6:05:10 PM PST by maui_hawaii
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To: NativeNewYorker
"That'll likely happen, though not forced. When they demand consumer luxuries, who'll design, make and market them? There'll be work down the road, but you have to be flexible. "

I still think WE BUY FROM YOU - YOU BUY FROM US - can be a part of our trade agreements (not forced, but agreed to). BTW a 3000 ft apt in NYC seems quite 'ample'. I hope you have a rent-conrolled deal!

50 posted on 01/29/2003 6:05:18 PM PST by ex-snook (It used to be the economy, stupid. Now it's your job, stupid.)
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To: ex-snook
Socially responsible sweat shop owners. What a joke.
51 posted on 01/29/2003 6:06:37 PM PST by maui_hawaii
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To: maui_hawaii
"Socially responsible sweat shop owners. What a joke. "

Righto. The brain washing crowd are into high gear. There is no way our trade inbalance can be justified.

52 posted on 01/29/2003 6:09:46 PM PST by ex-snook (It used to be the economy, stupid. Now it's your job, stupid.)
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To: Jim Noble; ex-snook
Just to clarify: Under FTAs there is generally a zero tax/tarriff agreement both ways, in both countries, for products and services that meet the requirements stated in the agreement.
53 posted on 01/29/2003 6:10:59 PM PST by maui_hawaii
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To: SauronOfMordor
It sounds like it is time to send the Statue of Liberty back to France, and close the borders. GW is never going to make it to a second term at this rate.
54 posted on 01/29/2003 6:13:13 PM PST by ARCADIA (Abuse of power comes as no surprise)
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To: ex-snook
Bought when Rudy became mayor. Own, not rent.
55 posted on 01/29/2003 6:17:42 PM PST by NativeNewYorker (Freepin' Jew Boy)
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To: ex-snook
Haven't you heard? "Country" is no longer important. America is a Borderless Proposition Nation, and we are all Citizens of the World. Long live the revolution.....
56 posted on 01/29/2003 6:17:54 PM PST by Pelham
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To: Jim Noble
Well said.
57 posted on 01/29/2003 6:19:01 PM PST by Pelham
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To: NativeNewYorker
No joke, but the official "poverty line" in Manhattan for a family of 4 is ~$75,000.

$37K in central Illinois for a family of 4 isn't great, but I wouldn't call it poverty either.

58 posted on 01/29/2003 6:42:43 PM PST by EVO X
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To: glorgau; dirtboy
so IMO the best route for American IT professionals to go in order to save their jobs is NOT to learn another programming language, but learn how their business works, and be the layer that translates technology into business reality

This is so true. Just knowing a programming language is a fairly mundane skill these days. Knowing how to improve a business through IT is worth much more.
There was a day when just knowing how to use a pc was worth a decent salary; we're past that. And very nearly past the time when knowing a programming language means anything.
We have to keep moving up the ladder. I agree that knowing how to improve the business through IT is the next step up.

59 posted on 01/29/2003 6:53:45 PM PST by speekinout
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To: RLK
fyi
60 posted on 01/29/2003 6:54:12 PM PST by primeval patriot (It's people like you wot cause unrest!)
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