[tpaine]

Incredible reasoning. ~If~ the USSC uses some phony excuse to avoid slapping the 9th Circuit & ~if~ the amendment fails, then what? Then, you have admitted that "California citizens have no right to own firearms."

You're exactly right, because under the law and case precedent as they stand right now, we don't have any right to "own or possess" firearms.
-mvpel-


False. - We have the right to insist that our U.S. Constitutional RKBA's be enforced in Ca. -- to strike down these insane laws.

The "individual right" argument does not hold any water in any court in California at this point in time. That's why we're trying to change the Constitution!
-mvpel-

We should reject the theory that "the "individual right" argument does not hold any water in any court".
This is an incredible stance to take regardless of the rationalizations put forth.
We can still try to change the Ca constitution, without agreeing to an unconstitutional premise.
- Good grief.

[mvpel]

We should reject the theory that "the "individual right" argument does not hold any water in any court".

It's not a "theory," my friend, it's a flat out fact here in California, whether you like it or not. If you're going to wage a battle, you really need to know where the battle lines are drawn.

If plaintiffs [gun owners] are implying that a right to bear arms is one of the rights recognized in the California Constitution’s declaration of rights, they are simply wrong.
[California Supreme Court, Kasler v. Lockyer (2000)]

... the Second Amendment does not confer an individual right to own or possess arms...
[Federal Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals, Silveira v. Lockyer (2002)]

These are the two highest courts short of the US Supreme Court having jurisdiction in California. And if you attempt to make an "individual right" argument against a gun law in any lower court in California, you're going to be shot down immediately under the precedent of these and a few other decisions. The lower courts are bound to abide by them.

Yes, we all know that the Second Amendment is an individual right, but until the California courts recognize that, or we force them to recognize it by amending the constitution, then this is what we're stuck with.

And them's the facts as they stand until we get an individual rights ruling from the US Supreme Court or an amendment to the California constitution.