The Biblical Basis for Being Pro-Choice

Belief Net ^ | 1.23.03 | By Marjorie Brahms Signer

[lupie]

The Book of Exodus clearly indicates that the fetus does not have the same legal status as a person (Chapter 21:22-23). That verse indicates that if a man pushes a pregnant woman and she then miscarries, he is required only to pay a fine. If the fetus were considered a full person, he would be punished more severely as though he had taken a life.

No, that isn't what the verse says at all, instead, it shows the opposite. He is to be punished more severely because he did take a life! Exodus 21:22-25:
If men fight, and hurt a woman with child, so that she gives birth prematurely, yet no harm follows, he shall surely be punished accordingly as the woman's husband imposes on him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. 23 But if any harm follows, then you shall give life for life, 24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, 25 burn for burn, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.

It seems to me that clearly says that it says that if the baby is born early, then there is a penatly due, but if the baby/fetus dies, then the life of the man is demanded.

In Jesus alone, Andra

[1stFreedom]

Well, you must consider the roots of the Episcopalian Church. It was based upon spiritual collapse in the first place. Why be surprised?

[uncbuck]

"Denominations with official and long-standing pro-choice positions include the Presbyterian Church (USA), the Episcopal Church, the United Methodist Church, the United Church of Christ, the Unitarian Universalist Association of Congregations, and Reform and Conservative Judaism. "

I'm catholic, so I'm not sure on the 'official' standing by these denominations, can some of you folks let us know if this is true? This woman doesn't cite sources, just saying something doesn't make it true (Unless your a democrat).

"Personhood. The Bible’s portrait of personhood centers on the woman and man who bear the image of God and live in responsible relation to God. "(From excerpted portion)

So we are gods, because we were created in his image. And are therefore as wise in our descisions as He is. I wonder if she is a creationist or darwinist?

[ZULU]

"Denominations with official and long-standing pro-choice positions include......."

The mainstream Presbyterian Church, Episcopalian Church and United Methodist Church are on the cutting edge of Christian heresy. They support abominations like gay marriages, gay clergy, etc. They question the existence of Satan and his work on earth. Some of them even question the resurrection of Christ from the dead. Their view of a loving God has been distorted into a concept of a God who will approve anything. They also intrude themselves into liberal politics by opposing private ownership of guns, opposing capital punishment, opposing initiative and referendum, opposing military actions in general, and they actively aid and abet illegal aliens invading our country - some examples! All the above have drifted so far from the original ideas of their founders as to have become entirely different entities, philosophically, from what they once were a few generations ago.

The Unitarians are hardly a religion at all. The include all types of bizzare belief systems from new age pagans to atheists.

Reform and Conservative Judaism is hardly a religion at all - they are more like cultural associations than religions.

The Catholic Church, the Baptists, and numeous fundamental Christian Protestant groups recognize the biological fact that life begins at the moment of conception and view abortion as murder. So does Orthodox Judaism and even Islam.

As a matter of fact, there are even atheists who recognize life begins at the moment of conception and consider abortion a form of murder.

But then morality and biological fact are not really subject to a popular vote - or God would not have seen fit to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah.

"Religions have many different--and changing--tenets about abortion.."

Basic concepts of right and wrong are immutable - except to individuals like the members of the above organizations which believe in moral relativism - the bane of modern society.

Abortion is an abomination because life begins at the moment of conception, and because human beings, by killing an unborn child, are acting to destroy God's plans for that individual and his/her impact on the world. In an sense, abortion can also be viewed as preventing the salvation of that soul, created at the moment of conception. While an argument can be made for abortion under highly restricted circumstances, the blanket prctise of abortion in this country has resulted in a human holocaust of unparalleled proportions.

Marjorie Brahms Signer is a perfect example of the phrase that the Devil can quote scripture.


As God is a just God, I tremble for the future of our Country.

[ThirstyMan]

Well, you must consider the roots of the Episcopalian Church. It was based upon spiritual collapse in the first place. Why be surprised?

It only takes one generation to usher in spiritual death, trusting in its ceremony over substance. True the Episcopal Church was conceived in sin but that alone does not sufficiently address today's fallen condition. The United Methodists were white hot on their conception and look at them now.

[meandog]

Meandog is a pro-abort McCainiac leftist.

...thank you, "Christian" for your usual personal attack

[Nataku X]

Abortion is a rephrensible sin... but can anyone explain what Numbers 5 means? I've never heard a satisficatory explanation... my commentaries dodge the issue a bit... definitely the "hardest" passage in the Bible for me...

16 " 'The priest shall bring her and have her stand before the LORD .
17 Then he shall take some holy water in a clay jar and put some dust from the tabernacle floor into the water.
18 After the priest has had the woman stand before the LORD , he shall loosen her hair and place in her hands the reminder offering, the grain offering for jealousy, while he himself holds the bitter water that brings a curse.
19 Then the priest shall put the woman under oath and say to her, "If no other man has slept with you and you have not gone astray and become impure while married to your husband, may this bitter water that brings a curse not harm you.
20 But if you have gone astray while married to your husband and you have defiled yourself by sleeping with a man other than your husband"-
21 here the priest is to put the woman under this curse of the oath-"may the LORD cause your people to curse and denounce you when he causes your thigh to waste away and your abdomen to swell.
22 May this water that brings a curse enter your body so that your abdomen swells and your thigh wastes away."
" 'Then the woman is to say, "Amen. So be it."
23 " 'The priest is to write these curses on a scroll and then wash them off into the bitter water.
24 He shall have the woman drink the bitter water that brings a curse, and this water will enter her and cause bitter suffering.
25 The priest is to take from her hands the grain offering for jealousy, wave it before the LORD and bring it to the altar.
26 The priest is then to take a handful of the grain offering as a memorial offering and burn it on the altar; after that, he is to have the woman drink the water.
27 If she has defiled herself and been unfaithful to her husband, then when she is made to drink the water that brings a curse, it will go into her and cause bitter suffering; her abdomen will swell and her thigh waste away, and she will become accursed among her people.
28 If, however, the woman has not defiled herself and is free from impurity, she will be cleared of guilt and will be able to have children.

[Wallace T.]

ALthough you have used this thread as an excuse for Protestant bashing, please consider that a large number, perhaps a majority, of Catholic legislators in the Congress are pro-abortion. Ted Kennedy, Tom Daschle, Barbara Mikulski, Nancy Pelosi, and Charles Rangel immediately come to mind. These Senators and Representatives (and other Catholic pro-aborts) have received no discipline for their anti-life position from their bishops, despite their egregious violation of Biblical standards in this matter, which are recognized by the Catholic Church. In many cases, these pro-abortion Catholic politicans are reelected by an electorate, a majority of which consider themselves Catholic.

Besides, the liberal denominations you cite (and the Unitarian-Universalists who were and are neither Protestant nor Christian) have long abandoned sola Scriptura and even the other solas with which Catholics would agree, such as sola gratia. What may have been (mostly) true circa 1910 regarding Protestant reliance on the sola Scriptura position when the New Advent Encyclopedia was compiled is not true with regard to the mainline churches, which are PINO (Protestant in Name Only) as well as CINO.

"And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but perceive not the beam that is in thine own eye?" (Luke 6:41)

[narses]

Ping.

[wideawake]

Let's see - you are a pro-abort.

You are a dogged supporter of John McCain.

Assuming that a supporter of John McCain also supports John McCain's stated policy positions, you are a leftist.

Which would explain why you posted an uneducated screed by a hard-left feminist wacko sans barf alert.

Apparently an accurate description of your political stance = personal attack.

[Desdemona]

...please consider that a large number, perhaps a majority, of Catholic legislators in the Congress are pro-abortion. Ted Kennedy, Tom Daschle, Barbara Mikulski, Nancy Pelosi, and Charles Rangel immediately come to mind. These Senators and Representatives (and other Catholic pro-aborts) have received no discipline for their anti-life position from their bishops, despite their egregious violation of Biblical standards in this matter, which are recognized by the Catholic Church.

There is a national petition going with over 7,500 signatures to get these people excommunicated. We're not happy about their possitions, but you must understand that Roman Catholicism is a Faith of, among other things, free will. These people regularly and publicly flaunt the teachings of the church. And no, it is not acceptable.

As to the other demoninations of Christianity, it must be recognized that at one time, all were one.

[LivingNet]

If we make wrong choices, God forgives us.

Uhhh...that is completely wrong Grasshopper. Forgiveness is dependent on this little thing we call REPENTANCE!

[DEM-SPOILER]

Life cannot begin without conception; therefore, life begins at conception. It's very simple.

[gdc61]

i notice that "meandog" hasn't the class to respond to any of the comments left. posting excrement like this should be banned.the murdering of unborn children is murder. period

[Polycarp]

These Senators and Representatives (and other Catholic pro-aborts) have received no discipline for their anti-life position from their bishops

As a Catholic, I agree that this is truly disgraceful.

We at the Catholic Family Association of America are working on getting a private audience with the Pope to present

1)the excommunication petition, to Excommunicate Culture of Death "Catholics" and

2) a plea to change canon law so that politicians who vote to expand/fund abortions or support the homosexual agenda are automatically excommunicated.

If you have not yet signed the excommunication petition, its not too late!

And please keep our efforts in your prayers, especially that our private audience with the Pope is secured and schedulued soon, to coincide with recent Vatican directives mentioned in the article above.

--Dr. Brian Kopp (Polycarp),
Vice President,
Catholic Family Association of America

Here is our request:

A Canonical Petition to Interdict or Excommunicate Culture of Death "Catholics"

TO:
Pope John Paul II,
Supreme Pontiff of the Catholic Church

Special Note: Part I of the petition requests changes in Canon 1398 to afford more protection for innocent life. Part II is a request for the 'medicinal' interdiction from the sacraments, pending repentance of grave public sin, and calls for excommunication of only those who stubbornly persist in supporting the Culture of Death. You incur no civil or financial liability in signing this petition.

FROM:
PETITIONERS

Mr. Stephen G. Brady, President, Roman Catholic Faithful
Dr. Craig Bozzacco, D.D.S., President, Dentists for Life
Mr. Michael Cain, Editor, The Daily Catholic
Mr. Vinny Ciappetta, President, National Cops for Life
Mr. Christopher A. Ferrara,
  President, American Catholic Lawyers Association
Dr. Brian J. Kopp, Columnist,
    Vice President, Catholic Family Association of America
Dr. Claude E. Newbury, President, Pro-Life South Africa;    Founding Member, Intrnl. Right to Life
   Regional Representative for Human Life Int.
Rev. Fr. John Trigilio, PhD, Editor, SAPIENTIA Magazine;     Co-host EWTN's Web of Faith,
    President, Confraternity of Catholic Clergy
Mrs. Judie Brown, President, American Life League, Inc.
Mr. Richard L. Bucci, President, Catholic Radio, NY
Mr. Timothy A. Chichester,
   President, Catholic Family Association of America, Inc.
Mr. William Cotter, President, Operation Rescue-Boston
Dr. Chris Kahlenborn, Author, "Breast Cancer: It's Link    to Abortion and the Birth Control Pill"
Mr. Phillip F. Lawler, Editor, Catholic World News
Charles P. Prezzia MD, MPH,
    President, Catholic Medical Association
Mr. Joseph Scheidler, Director, Pro-Life Action League
Donna Steichen, Author of "Ungodly Rage"
Monica M. Miller, Ph.D., Author
(Remainder to be filled upon closing of the signatory phase)

WHEREFORE, Plaintiffs request the following relief:

A. That Pope John Paul II, Supreme Pontiff of the Catholic Church take jurisdiction of this petition.

B. That Canon 1398 be changed to read: "A person who deliberately enables an abortion or euthanization incurs a latae sententiae excommunication. An elected or appointed official who votes for legislation enabling abortion or euthanasia or who publicly propagandizes for or promotes abortion or euthanasia incurs a latae sententiae excommunication."

C. That he issue to the bishops specific directives concerning the implementation and enforcement of interdiction and excommunication for public promoters of abortion, euthanasia and other forms of direct attack upon life.

D. That he publicly order Defendants to:
1. Refrain from any act or statement which enables, supports or condones abortion, euthanasia and other
forms of direct attack upon life.
2. Publicly repent and retract their errors and promise no further acts and/or statements
which enable, support or condone abortion, euthanasia and other forms of direct attack upon life.
3. Refrain from reception of the sacrament of Eucharist until the above orders have been followed.

E. That he publicly declare that Defendants' acts and/or statements as alleged are:
1. Contrary to and inimical to the faith of the Catholic Church ;
2. A scandal to the Mystical Body of Christ, the faithful of the Catholic Church ; and
3. A sacrilege to the Real Body and Blood of Jesus Christ when Defendants receive
the sacrament of the Eucharist.

F. In the event that any Defendant fails to follow any of the above orders to publicly
excommunicate him or her from the Catholic Church .

Dated at (to be implemented upon closing of the signatory phase)

[Stingray51]

Right, thanks! So John the Baptist leaped with joy in his mother's womb, but he was not a person? Gimme a break.

[StAthanasiustheGreat]

John Wesley (Founder of Methodism) has to be going nuts, seeing where the church he founded has gone. To think Methodism was once the first Evangelical Church (debateable I know) and now it has fallen away. I can only hope and pray that God strengthens the Catholic Church, that it stays on the path of Christ, and does not fall away. The Battle Lines are being drawn. God Bless

Vocatus Atque Non Vocatus Deus Aderit

[AppyPappy]

Question:

There are two children. One is two, lives with her parents in a really nice home who love her very much. The other child, lives in a trailer with her alcoholic mother. The mother doesn't want the child and wants to get rid of it.

Which child has greater worth?

Bonus question: What if the loving parents adopted the poor child? Which child would have greater worth? Let's say you are the parents. If one child had to die so the other would live, which one would you choose? (no cheating, you know the answer)