Penn & Teller ridicule Christ's crucifixion

WorldNetDaily ^ | Posted: January 20, 2003 | unknown

[al_c]

"This was performance art,"

Standard cop-out tagline. Anything's game in "performance art."

I guess I can add these two clowns to my never watch again list.

[yendu bwam]

The laws of logic are absolute. Non-contradiction is an absolute standard.

Well, the laws of logic are internally consistent. But the laws of logic are absolutely useless for establishing morality without an axiomatic base. Again, logic is of no use unless basic moral axioms have been established first. In Euclidean geometry (and every other form of math), laws of logic are similarly useless without a set of unprovable axioms. Logic is then used to derive Euclidean geometry from those unprovable axioms (and as Einsteinians know - Euclidean geometry does not correctly describe the universe anyway!). As an atheist, you can use logic all you want - but if you're talking about morality, it's because you have come up with your own arbitrary moral axioms. Stalin was completely logical. You know - in order to establish collective farms, I need to get rid of those in my way... Of course, his moral axioms were far, far different from Christian moral axioms, and were made up in his own mind. Relying on logic for morality is like telling your kids to rely on logic to behave themselves - without telling them the general and handed down principles of good behavior to begin with. That way can (and does) lead to the Lord of the Flies. Most all of the world's worst despots - Mao, Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot, etc., were quite logical. Most understand that right and wrong exist outside of logic.

[yendu bwam]

All men have an equal claim to self-defense.

Well, if you make that arbitrary a moral axiom. Most would say, as an example, that a man who relentlessly goes about shooting and torturing and killing innocent little children does not have the same claim to self-defense as someone like St. Francis. But of course, they have moral axioms that set their own ideas of good and bad. Most people get those axioms from God, rather than arbitrarily making them up in their heads.

[steve-b]

for which you have only one source, World Net Daily

Does anybody have a credible source? World Nut Daily has been sinking to the Debkaka level of late.

[Kevin Curry]

All men have an equal claim to self-defense.

Who says? You? There is nothing in atheism from which to distill the existence of such a right. The Darwinist model of mindless, aimless, godless natrual selection and survival of the fittest posits no moral "truths" at all. The only truth it posits is: the stronger, cleverer, and more ruthless get to mate and leave offspring; the rest die. The "right" to self-defense is an abstraction. Darwinist theory gives no place to abstractions.

[Undivided Heart]

Ah. I thought maybe you were implying that to *not* do something takes no energy.

[Roscoe]

All men have an equal claim to self-defense.

Show how that's derived from materialism. The rule would be survival of the fittest.

[GrandMoM]

bump

[yendu bwam]

Your opinions on #93?

A superb and well-written and well-argued post - laden with truth about morality.

[weegee]

If the "educational" cable channels didn't run UFO and strange pheonomena "documentaries" then maybe less sheep would need smart asses like Penn and teller to reveal the trick.

I haven't seen anything in Randi's actions to be outraged by, he seems to be interested in revealing fraud. I don't have a problem if he were even exposing "faith healers". A church music leader that I know jokingly referes to televangelists as the "professional wrestling" of religion. Everyone on tv isn't a fraud but there are a number of charletans.

[chasio649]

the guy is a rabid liberal...period.

[weegee]

Las Vegas Review Journal: Roast attendees take umbrage with stunt by Penn & Teller original article of their sacrilegious stunt.

[Houmatt]

If the "educational" cable channels didn't run UFO and strange pheonomena "documentaries" then maybe less sheep would need smart asses like Penn and teller to reveal the trick.

Those who do not believe in UFO's have never seen one.

[CyberCowboy777]

Great points from both of you. Thanks. Much better than I could have done.

I was getting a little bogged down.

For him to say each man has an equal claim to self defense and that claim has some moral superiority is to assume some base moral concept of right and wrong. You cannot logically make that distinction and it be an authority if it comes solely from a mans reason. The base truth would have to be reason and reason allows anything.

[CyberCowboy777]

I meant to put your name on #134.

Again great points.

[CyberCowboy777]

exactly

equal claim to self-defense as a moral superiority is assumed, not fact.

If we are going to make assumptions, why not assume God? lol

[buffyt]

You two know each other? Houston area freepers.

[bribriagain]

"You are confusing them with Siegfried and Roy."

Yenda may have been usuing lieterary licence.

[666beast]

i don't get it...

after reading the article numerous times, what message were they trying to send? How did this roast anyone? Where was the magic in the act? How was it entertaining? What was the joke? What did it mean?

i see penn jillette around las vegas all the time. i've never gone up and talked to him, but i've seen him at various concerts from jazz to heavy metal. He seemed like a pretty reasonable guy, but after this...

the quote about the world trade center was asinine. When islam is ridiculed, it's always in poor taste according to the left, when christianity is, it's fine. there's a double-standard and discrimination here. if i ridiculed religion on my job, i'd get fired. why not them?

the line at offending christians was crossed decades ago and i have yet to see material evidence of this "christian violence" of which jlogan speaks. where is it? What are you talking about, moron?

i think christians have shown unbelievable restraint and sometimes i sit at home and wish one of 'em would go haywire, so i could cheer.

[isthisnickcool]

I know that Penn is a practicing atheist

So was my grandad. Until he was 101 and a few minutes before his death when he saw Christ and believed.