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To: rmmcdaniell
Imagine these changes happening over a period of two million years

Not so easy as you say as Behe's description in Post# 62 shows very well. This is the problem with evolution it ASSUMES that given enough time anything is possible. The proof that this assumption is false is that since supposedly these changes are going on all the time in every one of the million and a half species known to us we should be able to see them somewhere. We have never seen any mutation which is creating a more complex creature anywhere.

157 posted on 01/26/2003 8:25:54 PM PST by gore3000
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To: gore3000
Not so easy as you say as Behe's description in Post# 62 shows very well.

You refusal to be relavant to topic makes your argument worthless. I was discussing how complex eyes could evolve from simple light-sensitive cells. Then you tried to refute me Ok I read your post #62 and I'll re-post some of what you put down in that message.

What is needed to make a light sensitive spot? What happens when a photon of light impinges on the retina?

When a photon first hits the retina, it interacts with a small organic molecule called II-cis-retinal. The shape of retinal is rather bent, but when retinal interacts with the photon, it straightens out, isomerizing into trans-retinal. This is the signal that sets in motion a whole cascade of events resulting in vision. When retinal changes shape, it forces a change in the shape of the protein rhodopsin, which is bound to it. Now part of the transducin complex dissociates and interacts with a protein called phosphodiesterase, When that happens, the phosphodiesterase acquires the ability chemically to cut a small organic molecule called cyclic-GMP, turning it into 5'-GMP. There is a lot of cyclic-GMP in the cell, and some of it sticks to another protein called an ion channel. Normally the ion channel allows sodium ions into the cell. When the concentration of cyclic-GMP decreases because of the action of the phosphodiesterase, however, the cyclic-GMP bound to the ion channel eventually falls off, causing a change in shape that shuts the channel. As a result, sodium ions can no longer enter the cell, the concentration of sodium in the cell decreases, and the voltage accross the cell membrane changes. That in turn causes a wave of electrical polarization to be sent down the optic nerve to the brain. And when interpreted by the brain, that is vision. So this is what modern science has discovered about how Darwin's 'simple' light sensitive spot functions. From: Michael Behe, 'Design at the Foundation of Life".

You refusal to be relevant to topic makes your argument worthless. I was discussing how complex eyes could evolve from simple light-sensitive cells. Then you tried to refute me with a paragraph that supposedly would explain how simple light-sensitive cells could not evolve. Nowhere in the above paragraph does this explain that. Instead it goes on about what happens when a photon strikes the retina, the light sensitive region of a highly evolved organ (the eye). What does this have to do with the mutational changes that would be necessary for non-light sensitive cells to become very crude, light sensitive patches? Even single celled bacteria display photo-taxis, a result of the ability to sense light. These cells’ systems are nowhere near as complex as what is described above. What you are trying to do is the typical deceitful creationist tactic of misrepresenting the theory of evolution when you cannot refute it. You (and Behe) are pointing to the workings of evolved retina with the insinuation that evolutionists believe that such a complex system could just pop into being with a few mutations.

This is the problem with evolution it ASSUMES that given enough time anything is possible.

A complete lie. All it assumes is that genetic traits that allows the possesing individual to survive and reproduce will tend to increase in frequency, while those traits which do not promote survival will tend to decrease in frequency.

165 posted on 01/26/2003 9:51:12 PM PST by rmmcdaniell
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