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To: WhiskeyPapa
There's no credible evidence of as many as 100 black rebel soldiers.

You have been lied to. I will direct you to a single report by a Northern officer, Chief Inspector Lewis Steiner of the US Sanitary Commission. He was in Fredericksburg and observed Jackson's Army for hours as it marched through on it's way to Antietam in 1862. In his report he noted:

"Over 3,000 Negroes must be included in this number. These were clad in all kinds of uniforms, not only in cast-off or captured United States uniforms, but in coats with Southern buttons, State buttons, etc. These were shabby, but not shabbier or seedier than those worn by white men in the rebel ranks. Most of the Negroes had arms, rifles, muskets, sabers, bowie-knives, dirks, etc. They were supplied in many instances, with knapsacks, haversacks, canteens, etc., and were manifestly an integral portion of the Southern Confederate Army."

It's the neo-reb "big lie."

The "big lie", it seems, would be the neo-unionist's denial of black Confederates.

29 posted on 01/18/2003 11:56:17 AM PST by thatdewd
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To: thatdewd
"Over 3,000 Negroes must be included in this number. These were clad in all kinds of uniforms, not only in cast-off or captured United States uniforms, but in coats with Southern buttons, State buttons, etc. These were shabby, but not shabbier or seedier than those worn by white men in the rebel ranks. Most of the Negroes had arms, rifles, muskets, sabers, bowie-knives, dirks, etc. They were supplied in many instances, with knapsacks, haversacks, canteens, etc., and were manifestly an integral portion of the Southern Confederate Army."

Oh, Lord, I've heard that quote from you people so often but I've never once heard one of you explain the last sentence of the paragraph: "The fact was patent, and rather interesting, when considered in conection with the horror rebels express at the suggestion of Black soldiers being employed in the National Defense."

Let's consider that for a moment. Why would the thought of facing black soldiers in combat cause the rebel army to react in horror? If, as you say, black combat soldiers were the norm in the Confederate army then why should the idea of black Union combat soldiers make them react so strongly? More to the point, if black combat soldiers were the norm in the Confederate army then why were southern soldiers so loath to take black Union soldiers as prisoner? From Fort Pillow to Olustee to Poison Spring to the Battle of the Crater to Saltville and battles in between there is instance after instance of black Union soldiers being shot while trying to surrender or shot after surrendering. Why is that? If the southern soldier had no problem with black soldier standing next to him on the firing line then why would he treat black opponents so brutally?

The fact of the matter is that there weren't thousands of black combat soldiers. Oh there were blacks with the confederate army, but in supporting roles as teamsters and stevadores and servents and the like. The idea that a south, where every single state placed restrictions on black ownership of firearms, would welcome thousands of armed blacks in their army as combat soldiers is laughable.

32 posted on 01/18/2003 1:11:25 PM PST by Non-Sequitur
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To: thatdewd
You have been lied to. I will direct you to a single report by a Northern officer, Chief Inspector Lewis Steiner of the US Sanitary Commission. He was in Fredericksburg and observed Jackson's Army for hours as it marched through on it's way to Antietam in 1862. In his report he [Dr.Steiner]noted:

"The fact (of_blacks_in_arms)_was patent, and rather, interesting when considered in connection with the horror rebels express at the suggestion of black soldiers being employed tor the National defence....Their apologies for regimental bands were vile and excruciating. The only real music in their column to-day was from a bugle blown by a negro."

...Three of the buildings on the hospital grounds were taken possession of by the Confederates for the accommodation of their sick. These soon threw themselves on the beds, with their filthy clothing and boots. In a few hours a marked contrast could be noticed between the neatness of the wards containing the Union soldiers and those occupied by the rebels."....All of them show a lack of energy and spirit, a want of thrift and cleanliness, which are altogether paradoxical to our men. A constant fear of their officers is associated with their prompt obedience of orders. Many, while they expressed their contempt for "the Yankees," would lament the war and express a desire to throw down their arms and return to their homes, if they could only do this without molestation. Jackson's name was always mentioned with a species of veneration, and his orders were obeyed with a slavish obedience unsurpassed by that of Russian serfs.

The men generally looked sturdy when in ranks, yet a cachectic expression of countenance prevailed, which could not be accounted for entirely by the unwashed faces that were, from necessity or choice, the rule. Those who have fallen into our hands show worn-out constitutions, disordered digestions and a total lack of vital stamina. They do not bear pain with any fortitude, and their constitutions seem to have very little power of resistance to disease. The rate of mortality in the rebel sick and wounded is double or treble that found in the Hospitals containing our men."

More_Dr._Steiner:

"A clergyman tells me that he saw an aged crone come out of her house as certain rebels passed by trailing the American flag in the dust. She shook her long, skinny hands at the traitors and screamed at the top of her voice, "My curses be upon you and your officers for degrading your country's flag." Her expression and gesture as described to me were worthy of Meg Merilies.

The Confederates have been seizing horses from our farmers, tendering Confederate scrip in payments. They allege military necessity injustification of this seizure. Military necessity is a convenient cloak for any outrage whatever."

Federal_troops_return:

"Amid all this, there was exhibited no vindictive feeling towards the secession citizens of the town. No arrests were made of so-called Southern sympathizers. Many of these were disgusted with their friends of the Southern Army, and not at all displeased that they had left Frederick and had been followed by the strong arm of the United States Government."

Sunday, September 14th.—Major-General Banks' corps d'armee, commanded by Brigadier-General A. S. Williams passed through town this morning on its way to the front. The men were in the best possible spirits, all eager for the fray. They are fighting now for and among people who appreciate their labors, and who welcome them as brothers. Brigadier-General Gordon said that "the reception of the troops by the citizens of this place was equal to a victory in its effects upon the men of his command." The veteran troops were all in vigorous health, and the new levies made up of strong, athletic men, whose intelligent faces beamed with strong desire to press rapidly upon the retreating foe. We had never greater reason to be proud of our army."

Walt

38 posted on 01/19/2003 6:34:41 AM PST by WhiskeyPapa (To sin by silence when they should protest makes cowards of men)
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To: thatdewd
The "big lie", it seems, would be the neo-unionist's denial of black Confederates.

There_is_no_credible_evidence_of_blacks_fighting_for_the_CSA.

"The Louisiana "Native Guards" were organized years before the Civil War. When the war came, they offered themselves to the Confederate leadership because it was the only government they had to offer themselves to in order to maintain and enhance their status as "free people of color." But the Confederacy turned down the offer.

When the United States took New Orleans, the_Native Guards offered themselves to the United States for the rest of the war, killing many Confederates.

When New Orleans was evacuated by the Confederate authorities in March 1862 they were ordered to report to Mjr. Gen. John Lewis, who commanded the state militia under the orders of Gov. Thomas O. Moore, but the Native Guards did not leave. The Creole in command, instead of following the Confederate troops out of the city when they evacuated it, allowed his command to be cut off, and then volunteered to Union Gen. Butler to serve in the Union.

On June 6, 1863, the four regiments of the Louisiana Guards were transferred into the Corps d'Afrique. On April 4, 1864, these regiments were designated the 73rd, 74th, 75th and 76th Regiments of Infantry, United States Colored Troops, respectively, and served in that capacity 'til the end of the Civil War. On May 27, 1863, the "free blacks" of the Louisiana Regiments were to distinguish themselves in the battle of Port Hudson against Confederate forces before the 54th Massachusetts Regiment would storm Fort Wagner and gain modern fame in the movie "Glory." An editorial in the New York Tribune of June 8,1863, eloquently declared: "That heap of six hundred corpses, lying there darkand grim and silent and within the Rebel works, is a better proclamation of freedom than even President Lincoln's. A race ready to die thus was never yet retained in bondage and never can be."

Walt

39 posted on 01/19/2003 6:39:53 AM PST by WhiskeyPapa (To sin by silence when they should protest makes cowards of men)
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