The United States of America has gone mad [Emetic!]

The Times of London ^ | January 15, 2003 | John le Carré

[Cap'n Crunch]

Yes sir, I remember the democrats. They are doing the same thing now.

When those Kurds were being murdered I say to hell with what the democrats say.

Are we going to continue to do jobs halfway and abandon people we promised (Republican promise)to protect because the communists among us get angry? Then we have no backbone and our word is no better than the democrats.

After the Gulf War President Bush's approval rating skyrocketed but he couldn't get re-elected. I voted for him twice. I did not vote for the current President. (not that it means anything to this discussion)

[Cap'n Crunch]

"Captain's revisionist version???" LOL.

[Cap'n Crunch]

Thank you. I can't understand that because I have some quesitons and misgivings I'm somewhat less patriotic and don't belong here.

I'm always hearing from people that I go along unquestioningly with 'jackboot tactics' on my job and when I do post some questions I'm told to hit the bricks.

[Cap'n Crunch]

Speaking of cops, I have to go get my run and my workout in. Gotta stay sharp.

[mil-vet]

This clown sounds mediocre in more areas than authorship! "Look, le Carré, wake up and realize that muslims do NOT want peace, they want to kill you because you're an infidel!"

While I'm pointing out the obvious, I guess it needs also to be passed to le Carré that SOME threats to civilization can only be effectively countered pre-emptively. Couple that with the FACT that Saddam Hussein bank-rolled BOTH WTC attacks (remember '93?), and one has a viable target set!

Stay vigilent, stay armed, and never trust a muslim or a liberal (both are terrorists, differing only in technique and weaponry).

[Redcloak]

The United States of America has gone mad

And we're exceedingly well armed. So, in other words

DON'T MESS WITH US!

[beachn4fun]

Ignore some of them. They are beginning to sound sort of like liberals. Don't like it when you don't share their view. You have every right to your opinion; same as everyone else on here. And, one should always question the "status-quo."Don't go along cause everyone else is.

I think we are missing an important point. I think part of the reason we are standing firm now is because of the Kurds. I think we have been asked by them for help.

ALSO, I believe that President Bush needs to keep the pressure on the UN to take care of this and the NK issues. That is the job of the UN. The world is despising the US because we are forced to take the lead and "save" everyone. Me, I'd just as soon see all of our military come home and the hell with countries that "despise" us. But, the USA is for freedom to all the world (and I believe that is why so many people join the military). So, I say, if you send in our people, make it quick and clean. Don't do another Vietnam or Mogadishu.

There... that is MY opinion.

[Pagey]

To:Mr. John le Carré,
In the immortal words of Roger Waters: What God Wants, God Gets!

[vbmoneyspender]

Here are some facts about helping the Kurds out. If one is fair about what the United States has done, one can hardly say that we abandoned the Kurds. Here is another link for you. Hopefully, this will clear up for you the fact that we did not abandon the Kurds and that they are living in relative freedom in Northern Iraq as a result or ours and the Brits efforts.

[zygoat]

Gulf War 1 was NOT about removing Saddam. The purpose of that action was to remove his forces from Kuwait. Since that time Saddam has repeatedly violated the cease fire agreements that ended the conflict. As a supposed officer of the law, I assume that you are familiar with the basic tenets of parole/probation and the consequences of their being violated? Clinton, being the consumate democrat, ignored Iraq and let the inspectors be intimidated and finally, ejected. The only use he had for Iraq was as an attention deflector during his impeachment.Thus four years passed with no inspections, and a sociopath at the helm of an America hating country with an axe to grind. Now it is time for Saddam to go,Officer-VIOLATION of PROBATION. As for the author of this piece of journalism-his country just legalized burglary and he's calling the U.S. crazy?

[ricpic]

I appreciate the debate going on amongst the posters on this thread. It is lively and informative. But I would like to say one thing.

I want revenge.

If that is primitive, so be it. I don't think that what we have done in Afghanistan is nearly enough in the way of an answer to 9/11. Maybe Iraq is not the best next target. Maybe it should be Iran. Maybe the Saudis. The point is that my appetite for revenge against the whole Islamic world has not nearly been satisfied. I feel a sickness inside myself that won't begin to lift until we hit them, and then hit them again, and then again.

Let the pundits argue the finer points. There is a time in the affairs of men and of nations when the primitive thing is the right thing to do. Revenge is the right thing now.

Revenge will right the balance.

[Petronski]

To me alot of what he says holds true. I don't think this ouster of Sadaam is for oil so much as it is for revenge for the attack on George I.

I'm not prepared to give my approval for war against Iraq. I think we have more concern over China & North Korea than we do Iraq.

And lastly, I've had some discussions with people here about the Kurds, whom if I remember correctly, we promised to defend in Gulf War I. It seems to me we didn't and I haven't seen or heard anyone explain why we didn't. If Sadaam was such a 'Hitler' why didn't we do it right the first time?

No heat here, Cap'n, just some observations:

If this is about revenge for George I, then the level of Saddam's cease-fire compliance is not relevant. Do you really imagine the Bush Administration would now be planning invasion if Saddam had been compliant and was now in compliance with the terms of the cease fire?

Is it not possible (if not probable) that the President has intelligence leading us to believe Iraq is more dangerous than North Korea, or perhaps that Iraq had been involved with 9-11? And what threat from China is being overlooked by our focus on Iraq?

We failed to give the Kurds the promised help in 1991, I agree. I also agree that we should have given them the help they needed. Does that failure in 1991 preclude liberating them now? IOW, are we prisoner to the mistakes of 1991?

[Paulus Invictus]

Gee, that's helpful 20/20 rear vision! How come you're so smart? It didn't happen then. It will happen now. Get used to it and get back to DU. They miss you!

[johnb838]

I agree. Both from an emotional, hot-headed standpoint, and a coldly logical one. I am nowhere near ready to "move on" from 911. I hate the bastards that think they can do this to us and get away with it. I hate the left that gives them aid and comfort. I hate the bigots who would sacrifice Israel to appease the beast.

I also think that our response has been far too slow and weak. In international affairs weakness means you get attacked again. And again.

We need to take Sodom down yesterday. And we need to stop caring so much what the socialists here in this country and in the UN think about it.

[johnb838]

I agree. Both from an emotional, hot-headed standpoint, and a coldly logical one. I am nowhere near ready to "move on" from 911. I hate the bastards that think they can do this to us and get away with it. I hate the left that gives them aid and comfort. I hate the bigots who would sacrifice Israel to appease the beast.

I also think that our response has been far too slow and weak. In international affairs weakness means you get attacked again. And again.

We need to take Sodom down yesterday. And we need to stop caring so much what the socialists here in this country and in the UN think about it.

[zygoat]

I feel the same, we are supposed to act civilized while we are attacked, plotted against, insulted from within and without, the list goes on and on. Every time I see a stinking ,goat boinking muslim chanting and burning an American flag I just have to wonder how much of my tax money went into his ungrateful, worthless gut. I hope and pray that our soldiers show NO MERCY and get as many, as painfully as possible. Those who want to call me a racsist,bigot or anything elsist, feel free-I can't hear you.

[carton253]

Revenge is good!

[johnb838]

I agree with everything except it's not the first step. Afghanistan was the first step. So we're making progress. I wish we'd hurry up though. It's going to take a long time to stomp all these cock-a-roaches at this rate.

[MattAMiller]

Have you ever noticed that no one ever really makes a case against this war, they just flap their jaws. If Bush was really in it for the oil, or the revenge, or whatever why would that that matter?

Wouldn't the fact remain that Saddam is a brutal dictator who's trying to get his hands on weapons of mass destruction? Does anybody have any other idea of how to deal with this situation?

And oil really does matter. If Saddam remains in control of his own oil fields and can threaten the one's of his neighbors that means he can pressure us. And he can even more pressure on Europe which is more dependent on Middle Eastern oil. This problem is profoundly deepened if Saddam gets a nuclear bomb.

And since when did Mutually Assured Destruction become the offical doctrine of the anti-war left? Sure it worked against the Soviets, but it's not magic. And I'm far from confident that Western opinion would condone the frying of an entire nation for any purpose. Would we be willing to counter Iraqi aggression against Kuwait if Saddam could legimately threaten Isreal with a missle or a Western city with a suitcase nuke? What if he were to harbour terrorists?

The fact of the matter is that a mad man in a strategically vital region armed with nuclear weapons is a very bad thing for the entire world. Anti-war folks can't deny that so they bury under a lot of innuendo about oil connections.