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To: BlackElk
You are a hoot. Tell ya what, give me something substative on the topic of the thread and then we can talk about how much we both are againt abortion.

Define "conservative"? OK. A responsible citizen of the United States who realizes his/her obligation to uphold, safeguard, and pass on the Constitution of the United States of America to future generations. And demands that government adhere to the limitations of power placed on it by said document, while upholding and obeying the demands that the Constitution places on it, such as to protect us from invasion.
479 posted on 01/17/2003 4:27:27 PM PST by MissAmericanPie
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To: MissAmericanPie
I certainly am a hoot. Just trying to be agreeable on the rare occasions when that is possible.

As to abortion, talk is cheap, action speaks louder than words. Do the right thing beats say the right thing anytime.

If you haven't found posts as to substance on the thread by me, you cannot or will not read. I have spent a lot of time over the last three days doing precisely that and the fact that those posts do not thrill those terriblky concerned about the doings on our border with Mexico does not mean that the arguments and facts have not been posted.

The constitution passes itself on to future generations if the nation lasts. We have no obligation to resist any and all constitutional changes. What we need to do is see to it that the constitution is changed only according to the methods prescribed therein and then only wisely. No one died and left SCOTUS as a permanent ongoing constitutional convention without need for ratification.

Responsible just begs further definition. Whence derives these obligations.? Your definition suggests that one may not be a conservative and a citizen of any country but ours (which is pure nonsense although we enjoy greater freedom than most).

There is no constitutional provision regarding "invasion" particularly of the non-military sort. We had no immigration laws whatsoever for many years after the rereal of the Alien and Sedition Laws of the 1790s which destroyed the Federalist Party and cost John Adams the presidency despite his lack of enthusiasm. Thomas Jefferson and James Madison were encouraging the Kentucky and Virginia Resolutions to suggest dire action unlkess the Alien and Sedition Acts were repealed.

It is certainly conservative to demand that the government itself adhere to the limitations of power placed upon it (that being the entire point of the Bill of Rights) by said document. I gather that you mean that a conservative should uphold and obey the demands that the constitution places on government. Most of the demands, if that is a proper word, are negative as in the Bill of Rights. Many of the rest have to do with exercises of discretion such as the grant of legislative power to Congress subject to the limitations of the Bill of Rights and of the constitution generally or the grant of the power of commander-in-chief to the president. Congress may pass or not pass the proposed tax cuts in its discretion. Congress must enact budgets which, as money bills, must begin the House (although this is often violated). The president may send military troops into action in Albania or he may not. It is up to him. The Fifth Amendment is a restraint on the federal government and provides due process of law to persons.

If you agree that those crossing the border are persons, then a conservative would, in your definition and objectively, demand that government provide due process to "illegals."

If that is not your demand, then you are not a conservative according to your own definition, nor are you upholding the constitution since you are rejecting a very important part of it that resulted from the War Between the States at rather high cost in blood. Whether you are a conservative so defined or not, the Fifth Amendment still restrains the federal government nonetheless. The Fourteenth Amendment likewise restrains state governments and their subsidiary regional, county and municipal governments. That's the law.

Class dismissed!

482 posted on 01/18/2003 1:40:50 PM PST by BlackElk (Viva Cristo Rey)
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