Grijalva invites Ashcroft to see vigilante 'justice'

Arizona Daily Star ^ | 14 Jan 2003 | Unkown

[hchutch]

I'm not one to cry racism - if anything, I don't like it when people are FALSELY accused of it. But when I look at some of the anti-immigration, it seems there are some of these anti-immigration advocates that are racists - the rhetoric, IMO, gets very close to the racism line.

Furthermore, when I see some of the shots taken at some of the black Freepers here, and the shots that have been taken at Luis Gonzalez, it becomes a valid question when folks launch into attacks against people on immigration issues, given some of the rhetoric I have seen here.

[BlackElk]

Ah, the Southern Poverty Law Center is the group that is antagonistic to the 1100 pro-lifers whom I represented in criminal matters (without fee) when they were arrested shutting down abortion mills.

I can see, though, that you guys will be another major opportunity for the Southern Poverty Law Center and Morris Dees. I disagree with them almost totally but they must have had some evidence to collect judgments after trials and appeals as they have. Who knows? Shoot a few Mexican-Americans and you may find out.

[dirtboy]

I want to hear the description of your winning coalition of voters nationally that excludes the Mexican-American vote.

And there is your fallacy - that opposition to illegal immigration equates exculsion of the Mexican-American vote. If this is done properly, it will make the situation better rather than worse - because now the illegals live in a shadow world where they are prey to thugs and dishonest businesses and law enforcement officers. If we need this labor, come up with a program to bring it into the light, and punish those who exploit the illegals. Win-win all around, instead of your approach of pretending that no problem exists.

[hsmomx3]

I wonder if he's ever read the U.S. Constitution? NOT.

[txdoda]

Sounds like "black elk" is on Fox's payroll.....his only
"plans" for mexico's 40/50 million in poverty, is to
ship them north....

[dirtboy]

I can see, though, that you guys will be another major opportunity for the Southern Poverty Law Center and Morris Dees.

Dees already has a page full of slime about Glenn Spencer and American Patrol. I researched their claims, and they were either bogus or insinuations. Kinda like what you have been spewing on this thread.

Shoot a few Mexican-Americans and you may find out.

You really should stop that crap. Hyperbole may be an effective tool in a courtroom to sway jurors too stupid to get out of jury duty, but here we see it as nothing more than the bullsh** it really is.

[Ben Ficklin]

I've been trying to follow this issue of citizen border patrols and just doesn't make sense to me. It seems counter-productive.

The un-official, un-written policy on these illegals is that if they get caught trying to enter, they are sent back. But if they don't get captured while entering, they may stay.

By patroling the border, the citizen patrol is buying into that un-official policy.

What they really need to do is patrol a restaurant and apprehend a busboy. This would accomplish several things:

It would generate a lot more media exposure.
It would point out how easy it is for INS to locate an illegal.
It would serve to identify those that employ illegals.
It would serve as an oppurtunity to point a finger at the restaurant patrons whose actions are promoting illegal immigration.

[mhking]

insinuations that I am a racist

You are? That's news to me...[g]

[hchutch]

Then explain away the verdict Dees has won against the KKK and Aryan Nations.

They've had a successful track record, and so has the ADL. I might not agree with everything they say, but for the most part, they've had facts, and they've won cases.

I do not like some of the SPLC's tactics, but when they've gone to court, they've won. I wouldn't dismiss them lightly.

[FITZ]

Grijalva is working for the Mexican government and like all the political officials in Mexico, he does not care one iota about these people ----if any of them did they'd work to improve their lives in Mexico. A bunch of liars is all any of them are. I also don't see Grijalva doing much to get his government to solve the murders of over 350 young women and girls in his own country brutally murdered on the Mexican side of the border. Their lives don't advance his political agenda so they don't matter.

[Spiff]

Hey. Someone had the idea on a local radio station this morning to put a sign up on the Mexican border.

The sign would be placed at an obvious, unguarded, unfenced location (such a spot will be quite easy to find). The sign would say, in English and Arabic:

Terrorists:
Enter Here.
|
\/
Millions of illegal aliens
cannot be wrong.

Bio-terrorists to the left - - Bombers and Hijackers to the right.

On the other side of the sign, the sign facing America, I propose we place a warning to those who may be entering Mexico. The warning would detail Mexico's immigration and border crossing policies and the potential penalties (jail time, etc.) according to Mexican laws.

---

Are you listening Black Elk? Is this sinking in at all? This has nothing to do with freakin' race at all. It is about border and national security and upholding the law. It is about keeping our border area hospitals and trauma centers open instead of having them close, one by one, because they are drowned by illegals desiring free health care that my family, my neighbors, and I are forced to subsidize. It is about protecting our property, our towns, our cities, and our way of life from the crime that comes with the criminals who are streaming across our borders.

You can rant your idiotic racist drivel all the way from Rockford, Il all you want but until you come down here and live here and see it with your own eyes - and have friends get beat up, their cars stolen, their property vandalized - and see other frustrated friends join up with these groups like America Patrol, Civil Homeland Defense, and Ranch Rescue - and then see them labeled "racists" by horse's asses like you - then you can just shut the hell up. You don't know jack about the situation or you wouldn't be spouting your stupid "racist" nonsense.

[dirtboy]

Then explain away the verdict Dees has won against the KKK and Aryan Nations.

Dees wins a few cases against obvious violent bigots, and then uses that to give credibility to the lies he promulgates against political groups he doesn't like. I saw his charges against American Patrol, I researched them, and they simply didn't pan out. And I started out as a skeptic of American Patrol, so it wasn't like I wasn't looking very hard.

[BlackElk]

You want to live on the coast. That is the coast that you describe. I moved inland to America from the East Coast.

America is largely empty. It is not by any means overcrowded. If you don't like crowding, leave the crowded areas to the Mexicans and move to Barrow, Alaska where there is little crowding and practically no Mexicans. "Our social services" are being choked off??>??? Would that it were so. The day we abolish "social services" for EVERYONE consistent with the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments, will be a happy day for every taxpayer. They call that kind of abolition conservative. The kind of abolition that affects only Mexican-Americans and Mexicans is called nativism and it is a shameful heritage. See Gangs of New York. It is also called unconstitutional and rightly so.

Your problems lie elsewhere. If you are concerned about jobs, scratch WTO and GATT and establish a tariff structure to punish production abroad. That's one thing Buchanan IS right about.

[janetgreen]

These are not home invaders

Uh, why didn't you think about that statement before making it? Have you asked the ranchers that live on the American side of the border whether their homes and ranches have been invaded and destroyed by illegal aliens? Have you asked them whether their animals have been slaughtered? Have you asked them about the trash the illegals leave in their wake?

America IS our home, and it IS being invaded by many millions of people from one particular country.

[hchutch]

I see that accusation made any time someone disagrees with the Tancredobots. "They're on Vicnete's payroll."

If you have proof of that, please post it. If you don't have proof, at least have the decency to admit the lack and make a retraction.

[FITZ]

Is this bum working for Mexico or the United States?

Isn't he part of that 100 member committee selected by Fox to work for Mexico against the United States? Which means he's working for the elite class in Mexico which despises these people he pretends to be concerned about. If they had any concern at all, they'd work to improve conditions in Mexico which are terrible for the majority, so bad that they're dying to get out. What they wish is a further expanding of a safety valve that allows the oligarchs to continue the raiding of Mexico which they plan to continue indefinitely. If the borders ever close, they'll flee to Cuba or Spain.

[FITZ]

Check the names on that 100-member committee hand-picked by the corrupt Mexican government. I don't have time at the moment to do it myself but I believe I've seen his name on it.

[dirtboy]

Ah, the Southern Poverty Law Center is the group that is antagonistic to the 1100 pro-lifers whom I represented in criminal matters (without fee) when they were arrested shutting down abortion mills.

First of all, kudos for doing that, second, was there any merit to SPLC's charges, and third, were there any convictions? If you are not at liberty to discuss the third item, that's understandable.

[marajade]

Grijalva is a newly elected US congressman in AZ.... are you saying he's working for the Mexican Gov't in jest?

[junta]

"Mexican-American" back to bloodlines again are you? Seems to me since conservatism is the greatest of all universal creeds one need not tune it specifically to this or that group, at least that is what you are trying to say when you drop the "racist" bomb.