Posted on 01/13/2003 4:20:47 PM PST by MadIvan
People are suffering? No way dude! We get comprehensive 24 hour a day media coverage, and the only bad guys are us. Excuse the blatant sarcasm, it's been a long day...
Oh my goodness, that raises your credibility at least 2.7 notches.
Listen asshole, my boy is 15, and I would surely love if all world turmoil was done away with by the time he is draftable. Guess what? Ain't gonna happen, and I don't play. I have children whom I am trying to raise as good citizens, and more importantly as patriotic Americans. Not cannon fodder. However, being an American carries a price tag...I don't think I like you.
people are being starved to death for political reasons in Zimbabwe. I find this heinous. Where the hell is Martin Sheen. Somebody ought to page his happy ass.
I can tell you a few reasons why the left is so successful at attracting people, and why we are not.
Otherwise there would be more support of Kim Jong Il and Fidel Castro in the crowds. After all, why shouldn't the protest include opposition to the sanctions on Cuba, which supposedly make Cuba what it is today? Why shouldn't there be complaints about the US treatment of the "peace-loving" North Koreans?
This makes me think that if there is big money coming for this, it's from Iraq or some other middle eastern nation. How about the Saudis? They seem to prefer the status quo. I think a Democratic Iraq would scare them half to death.
But this doesn't mean we should be passive and give up; it merely means we have to outsmart our competition. And that's what my protest thread has been all about.
D
Yes Free Republic does share signs. They don't share signs up and down the Americas and into the European theatre. There has to be a connecting organization that facilitates this. It is marxist in nature. It is definately a degree above the innocent well intentioned motives of the loyal citizens of one nation.
Yes I know they heap scorn on the Democrats. Don't buy into the honesty of that ploy. It's hollow. Did these folks protest when Bill Clinton gave Communist China nuke and missiles secrets? Did they come out against him regarding Chinese campaign donations? Did they come out against his debauchery in the White House? In fact, please mention one protest in the last eight years where they took Clinton to task for anything other than taking down a depostic nation, no matter which one it was.
Boy, as soon as Bush was back in office the oil thing, the Palestinian thing, the warmonger thing reached critical mass. Now protesting in the streets is once again quite popular. Once again our policies are fatally flawed. The White House is in the wrong hands. Can you remember one time this statement was made during the Clinton administration? I'm sorry, but these folks are fellow travelers with the Democrats. They walk hand in hand. Democrats even appeared at the ANSWER rally in D.C. about eighteen months ago.
Note also that every single Democrat allie in the nation was represented there. A number of greenie organizations, the Gay and Lesbian Taskforce, the NAACP, a number of local union Presidents and more agencies and groups that I can't remember right off hand. Don't try to separate these folks from the "mainstream Democrats." These are the mainstream Democrats. They echo the Democrats and their polices, and the Democrats echo a major portion of their platforms as well. You know as well as I do who was walking hand in hand with those protesters this Saturday. The union members. Who is a more loyal Democrat support group if not the Unions?
If these ogranizations and protests were only taking place in the US, I might buy the Iraqi financial arguement. Don't forget that these groups are active in Central and South America. Yes Iraq might find it useful to finance European protests, I doubt they find it worthy to finance Central and South American operations.
I don't think Iraq thinks that globally. I do believe there are other nations out there who are very much interested in fomenting political instablility around the planet. Russia wasn't my first choice. Russia and China both have a vested interest in taking down the US a notch or two. So does the EU for that matter. While you may think Russia doesn't have the motivation, or more importantly the funds to do this, a few tens of millions of dollars would go very far in this effort. With nations like Russia or China, a few tens of millions of dollars is nothing in the overall sceme of things.
Oh I don't think they'd finance Korea. They're smart enough to know we'd give them food before watching their people starve. As for Cuba, I think Fidel is far to willing to do his nasty in public. It's much easier and successful to allow the west to sleep while they send their funds through back channels. Socialism never flourished better in the US, until the Soviet Union crashed and burned. Now it fluorishes here and throughout our hemisphere and the European theatre unchecked.
As for a Democratic Iraq, the Saudis would have far less to fear from them than a destabalized region that would see radical Moslem clerics and their followers angry at Saudi leadership. The Al Qaeda and Taliban in Saudi Arabia are strengthened by the Iraqi factions. Stabalizing Iraq would help to stabalize it's neighboring states as well.
We won't get 5000 people out there, because our side is ill-advised and unmotivated. Lied to by the media constantly, very few of the mainstream public have any idea how bad things have really become. Willing to pay out between thirty and forty percent or more of their incomes, these folks need a good wake-up call. In upcoming months I think they're going to get it. When their favorite public watering holes begin to be bombed like Israeli concerns in Israel are, you'll begin to see our side get the masses on the street. And nobody will have to pay them to be there.
Yes!!! Thanks David!
Hoping your recover soon,
AWW
It's more than a "sneaking feeling" with me. Great editorial and great find. Thanks, Mad!
Posted by TheSpottedOwl to Austin Willard Wright On News/Activism 01/13/2003 9:45 PM PST #24 of 33 I meant raise taxes to Swedish levels. Oh my goodness, that raises your credibility at least 2.7 notches. Listen asshole, my boy is 15, and I would surely love if all world turmoil was done away with by the time he is draftable. Guess what? Ain't gonna happen, and I don't play. I have children whom I am trying to raise as good citizens, and more importantly as patriotic Americans. Not cannon fodder. However, being an American carries a price tag...I don't think I like you. people are being starved to death for political reasons in Zimbabwe. I find this heinous. Where the hell is Martin Sheen. Somebody ought to page his happy ass.
You must be pretty new around here not to know who Martin Sheen is. Sure you probably know he's an actor, but he is also a leftist, in the mold of Jane Fonda. He gives speeches at anti-war protests, and if anyone had any cajones, they would nail him for sedition. I truly dislike that S.O.B. I remember what that dumb(insert four letter word)used to chain himself to fences at San Onofre, among other places. We all laughed then, but, imo, he's dangerous now. Mr. Sheen would like to think that he is the world's savior, so we should direct his attention to Zimbabwe, where the level of suffering is off the map. Let's see how much he really cares....
I stand corrected on the asshole comment; in fact I am hereby apologizing to every card-carrying asshole on freerepublic for linking you to them. Don't make fun of Zimbabwe. I've been accused of being to the right of Ghengis Khan regarding my political views, but human misery isn't cool. That is why I called you an asshole in the first place. Who the hell else will clean out the world's "shitholes"? Dude, no one likes it, but people are going to die horrible deaths; and if Saddam gets his way, we are going to experience the most horrible agonizing deaths that will make starvation look like a picnic. Did this penetrate your hard, whiney, liberal head?
Perhaps I more "right wing" than you are in the sense that I am against paternalism and squandering the money of American taxpayers on social engineering crusades whether by alleged conservatives or leftists. You seem to have an endless list of such projects in mind and with taxpayers money! For this reason, I stated the simple logic of such an open-ended position: taxation rates will have to rise the level of Sweden.
Of course, I know that Martin Sheen is leftist scum. In fact, international Wilsonianism is derived from basically the same leftist social engineering ideals which Sheen advocates. For this reason, most of the great and small foreign interventions (remember Kosovo, Somalia, and Haiti?) of the past century were first and foremost supported and promoted by leftists.
As to your asshole comment, don't worry about it. Those who can't argue the facts usually resort to name calling....and apparently you just can't help it!
BTW, when I did I say that human misery is "cool?" You remind me of liberals who accuse conservatives of being heartless because they dare to argue that the welfare state does more harm than good. Ultimately, much misery will be eliminated if we stopped being sugar daddy and big brother to the world and follow the rules of self-reliance and self-rule.
Perhaps I more "right wing" than you are in the sense that I am against paternalism and squandering the money of American taxpayers on social engineering crusades whether by alleged conservatives or leftists. You seem to have an endless list of such projects in mind and with taxpayers money! For this reason, I stated the simple logic of such an open-ended position: taxation rates will have to rise the level of Sweden.
Well there is an endless list of two-bit, tin horn dictators torturing, starving, and murdering their subjects. It's not about social engineering, however if we actually went in somewhere and for once permanently cleaned up the mess, we'd save money. How would we save money? People would stay put in their own "third world shitholes", thus saving us money on welfare, etc., instead of them fleeing and becoming refugees. Once again, we need to go in and be decisive. Do it right the first time and it will be cost effective.
As to your asshole comment, don't worry about it. Those who can't argue the facts usually resort to name calling....and apparently you just can't help it!
You know, I went over my reply and your original post, preparing to apologize for the name calling this morning. Haha, I got angry all over again! Since the word offends you, I will apologize. Frankly I can do better than that.
BTW, when I did I say that human misery is "cool?" You remind me of liberals who accuse conservatives of being heartless because they dare to argue that the welfare state does more harm than good. Ultimately, much misery will be eliminated if we stopped being sugar daddy and big brother to the world and follow the rules of self-reliance and self-rule.
Good point. You never said human misery is cool. I don't know how we ended up being the world's babysitter. I wish we weren't, but apparently we are. Since we are, it would be really nice to go in for once and kick major butt, and quit apologizing to the rest of the world when we do. I wish we could make an example out of just one of these clowns so the rest of them would get with the program. Pat Buchanan(now I'm really gonna get flambeed)had the right idea when he proposed shutting down the borders, and telling the rest of the world to take a hike. It's just so easy, isn't it? /sarcasm...
Look....*if* we could clean up these problems (such as dictators) through intervention, I could accept your point. The problem is that (with some exceptions) the situation is not made better at the end of the day.
Haiti, Kosovo, and Somalia, are three examples. Korea is another one. During the Clinton administration, the U.S. began massive aid to the Kim regime both for humanitarian considerations and because of a nuclear bribe.
When Bush took over, he continued this aid. Last year, we gave 150 tons of grain to NK, more than half the food aid to North Korea.
While it is true that this aid has relieved suffering in the short-term, it has not solved the problem. In fact, had Bush bitten the bullet in 2001 and cut off this subsidy, I think it is likely that Kim would now be six feet under.
Now....I don't know how much food aid we are giving to Mugabe but I am sure it is substantial. If these dictatorial regimes had to bear the full cost of their insane policies (rather than be bailed out), they are far more likely to be overthrown. When it comes down to it, I don't think that Mugabe and his thugs really have that much support.
I am not, however, advocating strict isolationism. Sometimes, we have to intervene (as in Afghanistan) but, in my view, we should only do it for purposes of strict national defense....hence if we do go to war against Iraq I think it should be solely for that purpose.
In any case, you are certainly right that this is not simple. There are big tradeoffs and uncertainties for any policy we pursue.
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