NO MARKET FOR USED CARS

Vanity | 10 January 2003

[MeneMeneTekelUpharsin]

I've noticed that a lot of used vehicles are for sale everywhere. A LOT of nicer later-model vehicles are for sale and they're not moving very fast. SUVs sitting there week after week are NOT selling. Cars are NOT selling. One used car lot near here put out some used Mercedes Benz cars for around $4000 apiece and then moved them off of the lot and now has put them back on the lot (hoping someone would think they sold, I guess). What's the situation elsewhere?

[rintense]

The Expedition is a wee big large for me. I like the Explorers, Cherokees, New Trailblazers, Montero Sports, but really would love a great used 4-Runner at a good price.

[rintense]

We'll I've ben driving my Toyota since I bought it new in 1991. 140,000 miles and and oil leak. But still looks great and runs well. If I buy and SUV, I am leaning foreign unless someone can convince me otherwise.

[hopespringseternal]

. Rather than waiting until we have the money in our pocket,

If the best thing you can do with 25k in cash is throw it at a car, wow. You either have more money than you know what to do with or could use some serious investment advice. In an economy where you can't beat that 5% on the car loan, you probably don't need to be unloading that kind of cash anyway.

[roadcat]

"Some people have no clue on how to use money."

Ha-ha, I can relate. One of my younger sisters always needles me with a sarcastic remark "You must be ree-itch!" because me and my wife aren't in debt, unlike her. Here's an true example of how she and her husband do business.

About 10 years ago she's bragging about her new car, a Buick, and how fancy it is. I asked how much was the sticker and what she paid for it. She sticks her nose in the air and says it's a 37 thousand dollar car. I said excuse me, but I know how much Buicks cost and there's no way I'd pay that much. Turns out the car was around 25 thousand but after all the high interest payments on the loan it would be 37 thousand bucks. What an idiot. Me and my wife save our money and pay cash for a car. The savings on interest not paid is well worth keeping in your pocket. Several of my sisters are perpetually broke and can't figure out it's the loans and credit cards that do it. Go cash whenever you can.

[BureaucratusMaximus]

My priorities are a sun/moon roof, 4 or all wd., seats that remove easily.

Seriously, Dodge transmissions are crap...and with a minivan, you're best to keep things simple. If you want AWD or 4WD get a SUV. I agree with the previous poster...you may pay a little bit more...but go with a Toyata or Honda, and consider a Chevy Venture.

[baseballmom]

My daughter's friend, who researches everything down the last period, swears her research showed that the Infinity Q4 is the best SUV.

My son had a used one. He really liked it - especially the Bose sound system. He traded it in for a less expensive vehicle. Didn't have any problems with it.

[YoungKentuckyConservative]

And with the new emission rules, a lot of older cars simply won't pass muster.

Do people actually let the government enforce those rules? I've never actually bothered. I lie to the state when I go to get my car tags and if they won't give them to me I just leave without it.

Do the math. It's cheaper to drive illegal and risk getting a ticket, in most states. You'd have to get pulled over multiple times a year to lose the game, and I've been pulled over "zero" times in five years of illegal tags/emissions driving. Screw the government. They take too much of my damn money as is.

[woodyinscc]

If we bought used, is it better to buy through a dealer or private sale? What about a dealer demo? Does that qualify as a new car or a used car?

A demo is the worst buy on a dealers lot!(the same model used, sitting on the same lot with the same miles can generally be bought for a couple of thousand less in todays market)This is a buyers market for used cars because the % interest and low interest loans on new have stolen used car buyers to the new car market. ie a glut of used cars. Most private sellers are trying to get a higher price than a dealer would give them on trade. A dealer looks at what is actual cash value on trades. ie what they could get in cash that day in the market place. There is not enough space or time to explain how that is determined in this forum, but basically a good used car manager can appraise a car within 100$ of what he can get for it tomorrow.

[rintense]

Infinity = Nissan

I love both the Q4 and the Pathfinder. The Pathfinder is also on my list.

[Crusher138]

While I agree that you should "go cash" whenever you can, the huge majority out there couldn't scrape together $10,000 in cash if their lives depended upon it. While personal discipline has something to do with it, often "life's little disasters" can do you in as well.

My cash position had been depleated in the past 12 months by a broken refrigerator, stove top, roof repair, vet bills and computer repairs. While I could have kept my cash, it would have meant eating out, living with a waterfall in my family room, a dead dog, and no Free Republic. If I needed a car soon, I would have to finance it.

Sometimes life is just a matter of timing.

[BrooklynGOP]

mkt is full of em at 11 to 12 k

Not in NY.

[phil1750]

I own a car lot and currently have a quarter million dollar inventory NOT MOVING. Lot is loaded with SUV's and extended cab trucks and all listed $1m to 2.5m below NADA book value and still can't move them.

[jriemer]

Its not as simple as you would make it sound. Read Roadcat's reply in #84.

I would only add the following:

1. Paying cash for a depreciating asset gives you the asset at the end of the transaction with no strings attached. The asset will continue to lose value but only due to depreciation.

2. Purchasing an depreciating asset with a loan requires that you make pay the principle and intrest payments throughout the course of the loan. The asset will lose value in due to depreciation plus intrest paid .

Unless you are incorporated, you cannot write off asset depreciation on your taxes. That is the reason why companies tend to lease assets rather than purchasing them. It sucks for the individual.

jriemer

[Citizen of the Savage Nation]

Lucky you. I have 2 earlier model Intrepids, they have both been lemons. The first one required an axle repair in the first month, the 2nd one went to the dealer no less than 12 times for warranty repairs and I just got through paying alot of money to replace a rusted head gasket and 6 seal plugs. The 2 seal plugs that are behind the engine block and covered by the transmission compartment have blown on both cars. They are of low quality and held in by friction alone, no sealant.

Its only a matter of time when yours go, and it will cost $500 minimum to fix since the transmission will have to be removed.

[woodyinscc]

Go cash whenever you can"

An automobile is a depreciating asset. ie you are buying miles of transportation. The more miles the less value.
Econ 101 "put as less cash as you can into a depreciating asset and put the cash into an appreciating asset"
Bernard Baruch

[Citizen of the Savage Nation]

Definitely possible. My friend got a '95, fully loaded, for about $12k in '98. That was a steal.

[buffyt]

Last year I bought three used cars. A 94 Integra for my daughter, a 93 Probe for youngest son, and a 95 Cirrus for oldest son. The year before we bought a 90 Porsche Carrera. We almost sold our 82 Volvo 240 but decided to keep it, so my husband can drive it to work, to save wear and tear on the mint condition Porsche. Why did I buy used cars? My kids don't take care of cars, and they will learn how to do so on used cars. New cars cost too much. I got the kids three cars for $10K total. I see so many local kids with brand new cars, Humvee, Range Rover, HUGE pick up trucks... What do these kids have to look forward to, if we give them EVERYTHING now?
The Porsche cost several times what we paid for all three kids cars together, but still cost MUCH MUCH less than a new one. I drive my old 96 Plymouth van. Mom-mobile. My dream car is a Jaguar XKE, which they stopped making in about 1973. Maybe some day I will buy a used one in mint condition, they are around, for a price... sigh....

[Rebelbase]

"I don't want to get caught with something that the state says isn't clean and I have to either fix or replace"

The state does'nt care if you car is clean or dirty. They just want your money. I know a several people, all lower income earners, who pay a $250 fine rather than fix the cracked windshield, emmissions control, leaky transmission, etc....$800-1000+ it would cost, which is more than the car is worth in some cases.

[buffyt]

I hope I can keep my 1996 ugly ole van running for a LONG time since it is PAID for. I like the upchuck suggestion, too, buy used pay cash. That works well. Our 82 Volvo still runs like new. Looks like heck. Has been paid for since 1984! If you want a car that will last forever and a day, buy a Volvo. Do not buy a Volvo unless you want a car that is with you forever, they never die.
We sold our 1967 VW Bug a couple of years ago. My husband got it in 1968!

[Citizen of the Savage Nation]

Not that I would argue someone into buying a Chrysler, but I hear things like that from owners of Japanese cars. My friend has 3 camrys now, one is brand new but the other 2 are very old and the transmissions are always the first to go. He tells me from his time in Japan that they are very religious about swapping out transmissions about every 25k miles. I don't know if that's exactly true, but every Japanese car owner I know always seems to have no problems other than transmission.