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To: Dianna
In this era of feminism and equality, why are we demanding that men take better care of us than we do, respect us more than we do and use more common sense than we do?

Rape isn't a matter of common sense, it's a violent crime.

I am released of any responsibility for my physical actions as soon as my mouth says no. A man must be in complete control of his body at all times. I can act like the worst kind of skanky slut, but he must be a gentleman or go to jail.

Some men might think that a woman winking at them or wearing a low-cut shirt is a woman "acting like a skanky slut" - and yes if he rapes her he should be locked up in a prison like the animal he is. And yes, a man should be "in complete control" over his body at all times, aren't you?

Look, I believe that no ought to mean no. But you ought to know as well as I do that as women, we screw with this rule all the time. "Why no dear, you don't need to make a fuss over my birthday." What's wrong? "Nothing." And women do say "No" when they mean no, but some also say no and mean maybe.

Ummm, no actually I don't "screw with this rule all of the time" - if you do then maybe you are part of the problem - don't confuse your actions and/or behavior with that of others.

We are only going to make this problem worse if we insist to our young women that they need make no provisions at all for their own safety.

I do think women need to be careful and think of their safety because there are many nutso people out there....that doesn't mean I excuse the nutso people.

Hey, baby just say "I'm not sure about this" as you ALLOW him to take of your clothes after you've kissed and petted and gotten drunk, and you're home free. It's all HIS fault.

Strippers take their clothes off for men all of the time and give them lap dances - they aren't giving the okay for every man in the bar to rape them. And do really think every virgin bride-to-be has never taken her shirt off while alone with her man....and if she does, are you saying she 'deserves' to be raped? I sincerely hope not.

193 posted on 01/07/2003 10:22:41 PM PST by Born in a Rage
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To: Born in a Rage
Strippers take their clothes off for men all of the time and give them lap dances - they aren't giving the okay for every man in the bar to rape them.

In this situation the rules are VERY clear. Unlike dating.

Ummm, no actually I don't "screw with this rule all of the time" - if you do then maybe you are part of the problem - don't confuse your actions and/or behavior with that of others.

Women do, in general, all the time. Since I became an adult, I have become much more straight forward in my dealings with all people. I have known many women who are ambiguous in all kinds of dealings because being straight forward can be construed as "not nice", aggressive or bitchy. It is as simple as the first time a boy places his hand on her breast, she shoves it away, does the same a second time, but the third time, she leaves it there. She's just taught him that all he needs to do is be persistent.

Some men might think that a woman winking at them or wearing a low-cut shirt is a woman "acting like a skanky slut" - and yes if he rapes her he should be locked up in a prison like the animal he is. And yes, a man should be "in complete control" over his body at all times, aren't you?

Most reasonable people can agree that a wink or sexy dress does not constitute hanging out the wanted sign. I am concerned about situations like the one above, where we have a girl who is so weak and wishy washy that she cannot firmly state her wishes. That, combined with two boys who had been drinking, simply leads to disaster.

By sticking firmly with the party line that no matter what, as soon as a girl says no, or something which could possibly be construed as no, or body language which could be construed as no, you are giving young ladies license to act badly. They are learning that there is no reason to act safely or with common sense because the boy is ALWAYS SUPPOSED to stop.

I'd like to teach our young girls (and our boys) a higher standard. I'd like them to use their brains, take responsibility for themselves and the signals they may be giving out. That "NO!! STOP!!" should be their last line of defense, AFTER not getting drunk, not placing themselves in overheated situations, and not leading every man to believe that they "might" say yes.

But all these discussions revolve around, "Did she say no?" We never seem to get around to the rest because we are afraid it is blaming the victim. I don't think we are doing them any favors. As standards of behavior get worse these problems crop up more and more and more young women are being hurt.

201 posted on 01/07/2003 11:37:27 PM PST by Dianna
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