[billbears]

Hadn't seen the movie yet, but may have to give it a chance this weekend

[billbears]

Another example of abe's 'peaceful' actions. Southern ping

[Pharmboy]

I saw it on Saturday. Three hours long: I don't think I blinked throughout the whole movie and wished it had gone on for another 3 hours. It was very un-PC as Rockwell says. Do not miss it.

[laconic]

Strange, I had the curious idea that if you came to this country and wanted to live here, you fought for it when you were needed. The Irish immigrants weren't forced to bear an unfair share of the fighting. Read McPherson's book; the Irish regiments on both sides fought extremely well in many notable engagements, but Irish immigrants actually constituted less of a percentage of the Union Army than their share of the population would indicate. Moreover, rich men fought in the war on both sides; often, ther richest man in a northern town would clothe, feed and arm his volunteer regiment from his town in return for leading it. A fine example is Robert Gould Shaw of Massachusetts, from one of the wealthiest families in the state, who died leading the 54th Regiment of free black men into battle in Charleston. If Lincoln was so unpopular with the troops "forced" into the Union Army, why is it that the Union troops were given leave to go home in 1864 to vote and voted for Lincoln in overwhelming numbers? In addition, the idea of New York's secession wasn't a sometime thing; the mayor of the heavily-cotton dependent seaport pushed for it before the war even began. In reply, Lincoln said "its like the doorstop of the home deciding its going to play house on its own".

[scouse]

The immediate cause of the draft riots of the workers was their conscription for military duty. The New York "World" of Saturday, July 18, 1863, editorially regards the riots as the "spontaneous outburst of popular passion, primarily at the draft, next at the $300 exemption clause..." which provided that the propertied class could shift the blood tax which the war demanded on to the shoulders of the working class. Section 80 of the Regulations of the War Department made provision for "Certificates of exemption (and discharge) from the draft by reason of having provided a substitute or of having paid commutation money," $300. As J. T. Headley recounts the situation in "The Great Riots of New York," "most of those drawn were laboring men, or poor mechanics, who were unable to hire a substitute....

This paragraph is from an article written in the 1930s and can be found at :"http://www.weisbord.org/FourSixSeven.htm". Some interesting reading at this website and gives one an insight into the liberal psyche.

[Centurion2000]

bump .... hmm maybe I'll have to go check this one out.

[joesnuffy]

Martin Scorcese’s new anti war film....to awaken a sense of vietnam era draft resistance and rioting if GW tries to bring back the draft....
Re-vitalizing the lie...that only the poh be goin' off tuh war....
Most of the Vietnam vets were volunteers...white with two years of college...
California's white middle class hit the hardest....per capita
The whorlywood liberal elite.....strikes again..and dumb ass Americans line up and pay a premium for their brainwashing....
Heh though.....dats entertainment

[Man of the Right]

This article is naive.

NYC secession was a dead letter by the time of the draft riot (Jul., 1863). The City's corrupt former mayor, Fernando Wood, had proposed NYC secession in Jan., 1861, 2 1/2 years earlier. In 1862 Wood was denied renomination by Tammany based in part on his extremism and he was defeated by a Republican, George Opdyke, in a three-way race that fall. Elsewhere, Democrats did very well in the election. The moderate Opdyke was mayor at the time of the riot.

At the time of the riot, Lee was retreating across the Potomac. Grant was besieging Vicksburg a thousand miles away. No New York regiments were serving with Grant. New Yorkers served with Meade in Maryland or garrisoned DC and other points.

The draft was a bigger factor in the manpower-starved South than in the North. Only 8% of Union soldiers were conscripted in the Civil War compared to 25% of Confederate soldiers. So if there's a draft bogey, it's Davis, not Lincoln. The governors of Georgia (Joe Brown) and North Carolina (Zebulon Vance) were bitter opponents of the draft, the Confederate national government, and Davis.

The level of violence in the riot is unknown. Estimates of deaths range from below 100 to above 3,000. Most historians lean toward the lower figure.

The riot was the most violent civil disturbance in U.S. history excluding the Civil War itself. The movie dramatizes it into a revolution. It wasn't. The civil authorities lost control of much of the City for two days. Elsewhere and outside the city, life went on normally.

[Non-Sequitur]

Hadn't seen the movie yet, but may have to give it a chance this weekend.

I saw it last Friday, and the only surprise to me is that Tommy took this long to work it into one of his columns. I have no doubt that you will find it as 'historically accurate' as DiLusional did.

[WhiskeyPapa]

In his memoirs of his time with Robert E. Lee’s Army of Northern Virginia entitled Three Months in the Southern States...

Fremantle also predicted an inevitable rebel victory.

Walt

[WhiskeyPapa]

Hundreds of unarmed draft protesters, including women and children, are gunned down and are shown laying dead in the streets.

Tommy, Tommy, Tommy.

What were all these dead people laying?

Their bodies were probably lying in the streets.

Walt

[HamiltonJay]

Well this article certainly does a better job of portraying what the hell this movie is about than the advertising has done....

[WhiskeyPapa]

This should pique the public’s curiosity about the true history of Lincoln’s war. It is a good prelude to an even more stunning cinematic event about Lincoln’s war, the movie "Gods and Generals," which is scheduled for release on February 27.

Cool; that's the anniversary of Lincoln's Cooper Union speech that brought him to national prominence. I mean, all he said in that speech was that the framers of the government had favored an end to slavery and federal control of the territories.

That made the slave power just go --nuts--.

And the war came.

Walt

[justshutupandtakeit]

Most of the grandchildren of Thomas Jefferson were from his union with Sally Hemmings and were Unionist in sentiment. Jefferson never supported secession ever. As bad as his policies were they never went that far. Thus, it is deceptive to refer to him in this respect. Not that the author cares about deception.

Like most descendents of great men, TJ's and Henry's never amounted to much so who cares what they thought anyway.

[nutmeg]

Yet another Gangs of New York ping!

[montag813]

"New York should secede!" "New York should secede!"

America should only be so lucky.