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To: ninenot
See above post from TotusTuus. He has nailed a good part of this with his comment that the liturgy is ORGANICALLY developed. It is his contention that this "standing" is essentially pasted-over the RC liturgy development, and not consistent with the rest of the RC organic development---it's a very sophisticated point which could use more examination,

<>It should be, while recognising at the same time such things as the Credo are not organic

Still, we do have Tertullian to deal with. No matter what reasons are adduced to explain or explain away the fact about standing, there is evidence that was a Rule.

We also have Canon 20 of Nicea for evidence. That is a Rule. The questions surrounding that Rule are legitimate. But, those questions, no matter whose polemical golden calf is being gored (to vaingloriously mix metaphors), do not render the standing rule nugatory.

We also have Jungmann saying that kneeling was imposed.

We have the Catholic Encyclopedia saying kneeling was imposed.

This conspiracy of facts is something some competent, professionally trained Liturgist ought to tease out so we can be better informed and form conclusions more dispassionately

Just speaking for myself, the more I learned about Liturgy, the less I was vexed about the Pauline Reform. In my flirtation with the schism, I was being influenced by tendentious morons. What they knew about the actual history of the Mass wouldn't fill a thimble. Once I started reading for myself- from many sources, Dom Gueranger, Gamber, Jungmann ect - the more easy it became to identify the ignorant polemical errors promoted by Davies et al.

I also admit I am Blessed. My Pastor is a brilliant man. Even were The Indult located close by, I would continue with the Missa Normitiva due to his preaching. He is incomparable and his sermons are enlightening, enspiriting, educational, funny, and startling. The Mass is reverent, we are adding back Latin Hymns (Agnus Dei always sung), the Tabernacle is back in the Sanctuary,we always say the Confetior... ect ect<>

161 posted on 01/06/2003 10:48:14 AM PST by Catholicguy
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To: Catholicguy
You are truly blessed if your pastor is a solid man. Keep him happy...

As to the "impositions," perhaps we should go to 35,000 feet and ask the question: "WHY make changes at all?"

All the experts (including Jungm/Gamber/Ratz) state that the liturgy organically develops (also referenced above by TotTu.)

Now if we believe these experts, and the Roman liturgy developed organically, based on all the appropriate factors, WHY in heaven's name would someone "un-develop" the liturgy?

Use English for the readings? Fine. (Elegaic, please.) Responses from the congregation in Latin OR English? Fine. More hymnody? Fine.

But to rip the cloth apart, select a few threads, and to claim that "these threads are the ONLY good threads" is certainly not respectful of tradition (he said, tiresomely.) And we know what sorts of folks do not respect tradition.

Well, we shall see what else develops. As for me, I will practice "selective disobedience," should it become necessary--but with a Catholic now as Archbishop of Milwaukee, I don't think it will be necessary.

Next thread...
163 posted on 01/06/2003 1:58:51 PM PST by ninenot
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