News from Adoremus Bulletin 12/02

Adoremus Bulletin ^ | December 19, 2002 | Adoremus Bulletin Staff

[Desdemona]

oh, no. MY parish uses bells, others don't. And it is jarring when they aren't used. Incense is usually reserved for special occations. And in this archdiocese, kneelers never went out of style.

[sinkspur]

Guess this would be a bad time to complain about the absence of bell ringing at the Consecration?

Why do you need bells? Are you not paying attention?

Bells were needed at the Tridentine Liturgy to let the congregation know something important was happening.

If you're attending a Novus Ordo Mass, you ought to be able to tell what's going on.

[Desdemona]

Why do you need bells? Are you not paying attention?

Because some of us choose not to watch the elevation and put our faces in our hands. Or vision is impeded due to being several inches shorter than the general population. Believe me this is a problem.

It also adds another, more mystical dimention.

Aside from that, the people like it. At least everyone I know.

[ninenot]

Perhaps Sink's theory is correct, but it sounds an awful lot like the typical snide remarks most often made by people like Gabe Huck (FIRED!!!), Bert Weakland (HUMILIATED AND FIRED!!) and that pestilence/priest from North Dakota.

As usual, that crowd doesn't really know too much.

JSBach wrote lots of music WHICH USED GREGORIAN CHANT THEMES. The themes, of course, prompted the listeners to recall the Latin text of the Chant. Thus, one can conclude that JSBach KNEW that the "dummies" in the pew KNEW the Latin AND THE TRANSLATION.

Of course, no one is as intellectually gifted as that bunch of queers in the Liturgical Establishment--at least, not by their telling the story.

There are lots of myths out there about how stupid people were in the 10th century. Most of the myths are self-serving and utterly devoid of basis in fact.

[sinkspur]

Because some of us choose not to watch the elevation and put our faces in our hands.

Why? If Jesus actually appeared at the consecration, would you look away?

It also adds another, more mystical dimention.

Not for me. The bells themselves would be a distraction.

But, hey, to each his own. Bells are a liturgical innovation to the Novus Ordo, so don't complain when somebody introduces an inculturation novelty into the Mass.

[sinkspur]

There are lots of myths out there about how stupid people were in the 10th century.

People weren't stupid; they just didn't know very much.

Thus, one can conclude that JSBach KNEW that the "dummies" in the pew KNEW the Latin AND THE TRANSLATION.

How much of Bach's music was actually played during Mass?

[Salvation]

**a "balkanization" of the Church in the US -- is causing very serious and very widespread confusion. It is a source of grief for Catholics in dioceses where draconian measures are taken to eliminate kneeling or other traditional gestures of reverence. People are especially distressed (and perplexed) at the harshness of the directives of some bishops, and find themselves torn between their wish to obey the bishop (some bishops are invoking obedience to enforce their directives) and their profound desire to express bodily their reverence for the Blessed Sacrament.**

I believe these peoples hearts will lead them to stick with the Lord and the reverence for the Holy Eucharist, and to bring the abhorations of non-reverence to their Bishop's attention. When that won't work, for in some cases it won't, then I believe these individuals will go another step up -- whether it is a regional representative Bishop or the USCCB or even to the Pope.

The people of Boston are an example of this in the letters they sent to Rome about Law.

[G Larry]

I don't need the bells!
Anymore than I need somebody to read 3 verses of the Bible to me.
For that matter why don't they just e-mail the sermon and have drive through Communion?

I object to the constant errosion of tradition.
The Consecration is the focal point of the Mass.
I also object to the trend to move the Tabernacle off to the side, or completely out of view.

[Loyalist]

While no one will be denied Communion if they choose to kneel, for the sake of uniformity throughout the Archdiocese, all are called to 'humble obedience'.

I resolve this year to render unto the bishops the same humble obedience that they render unto their betters.

[ultima ratio]

The General Instruction was revised in response to out-and-out outrage towards what had previously been published. It is a sop to the faithful, a pretense that something is there that isn't, an addition of language that suggests the New Mass is not the bizarre break from Tradition that it is, a lie that the reenactment of the Sacrifice on the Cross is the aim of the Novus Ordo whereas anyone who reads the text and follows the rubrics can see it is a Memorial Meal celebrating the assembly, suppressing any acknowledgement of the Real Presence, and reducing the priest to his role as minister-presider, all made to resemble closely the Protestant Lord's Supper worship service--in open defiance of Trent.

[ultima ratio]

Many of the bishops lack faith. But this Pope is no prize either. He often opposes Tradition, forcing the faithful to choose between the old faith and himself. His elevation of Escriva to sainthood was a hideous scandal. So was his awarding the red hat to Kasper, a public apostate. So were his prayer-sessions at Assisi and elsewhere. So are his attacks on traditional orders such as FSSP while he tolerates the worst liberal excesses. So has been his corresponding unwillingness to reform the seminaries or discipline dissenting theologians. So has been his reluctance to fire corrupt bishops. The list goes on and on. Only the willfully blind would call John Paul II a good pope. He is directly involved in much of what is going on. He does not order the bishops to reverse their decree on prohibiting kneeling for communion; he only issues a weak reprimand regarding not giving communion to those who continue to kneel--not the same thing. The bishops know he will not lift the burden from the people and puts no force behind his empty words. He will not fire or excommunicate them the way he has fired and excommunicated traditionalists, no matter what they do. This is because he is himself a humanist-modernist who rejects the Traditional Church.

[ninenot]

As a matter of fact, the Bach stuff was performed during the latter part of Sundays. The cantatas were Vespers-time, and the Oratorios were after lunch.

Your disdain for 10th century people is STILL not grounded in some sort of fact, and your presumption of ignorance is astounding.

Perhaps you forget the Jews knew their Scripture (in Hebrew, not Aramaiac) at the time of Christ.

You must be assuming that intelligence and devotion both went to 20th-century standards after Christ died.

Illuminati. What a crowd.

[ninenot]

Bells are a liturgical innovation to the Novus Ordo

I don't believe that you can cite the suppression of bells in ANY document emanating from the Vatican post-V.II.

[ultima ratio]

"If you attend the Novus Ordo you would know something important was going on."

Baloney. Everything is done to hide the fact. The priest even proclaims "Christ will come again," at the moment He's right there on the altar. It's a deliberate sleight-of-hand, to deflect our attention from the Real Presence. Before you know it, we're talking about how wonderful the assembly is all over again. This is not worship of God, it's self-worship of the most sacrilegious kind.

[ninenot]

I resolve this year to render unto the bishops the same humble obedience that they render unto their betters.

ANd I resolve to treat the Bishops with the same charitable inclusion with which they treat traditionalists.

[ultima ratio]

It is the essense of modernism to believe no other people were as smart or as pious or as wonderful or as wise as this living generation. The truth is these bozos have been disasters walking, less wise, less pious, less wonderful in every way. Look at the last forty years. Pretty it's not. The Church is in shambles everywhere.

[sinkspur]

Your disdain for 10th century people is STILL not grounded in some sort of fact, and your presumption of ignorance is astounding.

Where did I show disdain for 10th century people? They just didn't know as much as we know now, but they knew more than 9th century people did. Gosh, why are you so upset about this?

I don't believe that you can cite the suppression of bells in ANY document emanating from the Vatican post-V.II.

If they're not mentioned in the rubrics (or GIRM)--and they are not mentioned--then who would know to use them, or when to use them? Or, should they be used whenever we feel like using them?

Have a good night, ninenot, and a Happy New Year.

You're off into some very byzantine subjects on this thread, and I'm not going to argue with you about them. Use bells and Bach all you want.

[Arthur McGowan]

Of course, Adoremus is tweaking the "liberal" bishops--who are, as usual, revealing themselves to be the real authoritarians.

Bishops who are faithful to tradition don't NEED to be authoritarian. It is the vandals like Weakland, Mahoney, and Bernardin who use their "authority" to destroy the Church.

[ultima ratio]

People complained about corruption for decades, writing to Rome all that time, receiving silence for answers. It was the MEDIA that brought Law down, and the rebellion of the clergy. The laity was ignored by Rome as usual.

[Arthur McGowan]

Nevertheless, the rubrics express a preference for their use.