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To: fporretto
People are inherently people.

And people are inherently evil. That is, the natural man is inherently evil. On the other hand, most people individually believe they are good. People cope with this klang and dissonance between the reality of their depravity and their self-perception that they are fundamentally good by externalizing the evil onto others or by rationalizing their own motives and behavior.

Go to DU and read their posts. The liberals posting there are convinced their hearts are noble and pure. They truly believe they are good people--perhaps the only good people. On the other hand, DU'ers know conservatives--especially conservative Christians--are base and evil.

DU'ers and other liberals excuse Bill Clinton's sexual depravity and Hillary Clinton's (whom they perceive to be a reflection of themselves) abuse of power by imaging them also to be good, empathetic, compassionate people who only want to feed the hungry, clothe the naked, and uplift the downtrodden. Never mind that they are stealing from more efficient citizens and sources and creating ever-larger classes of "victims" through their stupidity and hubris. Through the jujitsu of self-deception they persuade themselves that they are more Christ-like than Christ. After all, which of them would ever say something as "cruel" as "leave the dead to bury their dead"? No, thay are convinced that through the bloody expedient of gross government extortion they can forcibly create the good and just society that Christ "failed" to deliver.

And if social regressives such as conservative Christians (who truly understand the mystery of the Kingdom and are loathe to accept a human-made substitute) get in the way? In their heart of hearts, they would like nothing better than to eliminate them as enemies of mankind--if they could get away with it. That was Stalin's view of Christianity, too.

As for me, I am not deceived about the depravity of the human heart. I know, I am painfully reminded every day, of the natural man. I don't expect the perfection in others that I cannot achieve myself, but neither do I excuse their depravity and imagine they are fundamentally good. Rather, I know that the best of them is struggling.

29 posted on 12/31/2002 7:13:44 AM PST by Kevin Curry
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To: Kevin Curry
Nonsense. Dangerous nonsense at that. To believe Man inherently good lays oneself open for victimzation, but to believe Man inherently evil is far worse. It's internally contradictory, an assumption of a license to pronounce moral condemnation while simultaneously declaring oneself to be condemnable! And of course, all moral condemnations include a license to destroy.

Is it not clear that, if there are moral absolutes in the world, which there surely are, then all gradations of human progress in the moral realm require an ability to perceive differences in moral stature? That such differences are impossible to separate from the idea of "better" and "worse" -- and that the privilege of judging remains with those on the "better" end?

What would any moral judgment be worth, if we were all inherently evil? Each of us could point to the permanent fault of being human as exculpation for all his deeds -- and no human being would possess the elevation to argue with him!

Is it not clear that one could not even aspire to moral improvement if one were inherently evil, any more than one could be subject to temptation if one were inherently good? That the joined need and ability to struggle against temptations to abuse one's fellows is testimony to a divided nature, a nature of parts, neither inherently good nor evil?

I reject all categorical classifications of Man. It does immense harm to attribute to our shared natures what should be marked down to the weakness of individual wills. That's quite as bad as any other form of collectivism, and lead to results just as catastrophic. Christianity, a faith which exhorts us to nurture our better natures and resist our worse ones, and to encourage the same in others by example, has no place for such a thing. It gives our opponents the raw material they need to portray us as hateful bigots and prigs, with neither charity nor mercy in our souls.

Freedom, Wealth, and Peace,
Francis W. Porretto
Visit The Palace Of Reason:
http://www.palaceofreason.com

39 posted on 12/31/2002 7:43:49 AM PST by fporretto
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To: Kevin Curry
And people are inherently evil. That is, the natural man is inherently evil. On the other hand, most people individually believe they are good.

"A person is smart; people are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals."
  --Agent Kay, Men In Black

The same observation (with about the same amount of individual exceptions) seems to apply to moral conduct.

48 posted on 12/31/2002 9:59:34 AM PST by steve-b
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To: Kevin Curry
Rather, I know that the best of them is struggling.

Kevin, is it fair to ask why, if Man is inherently evil, there would be any struggle at all?

155 posted on 01/02/2003 7:15:52 AM PST by Phaedrus
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