Speech against military conscription (Daniel Webster, 1814)

Liberty Story ^ | December 9th, 1814 | Daniel Webster

[Sabertooth]

I would ask, fir, whether the supporters of these measures have well weighed the difficulties of their undertaking. Have they considered whether it will be found easy to execute laws which bear such marks of despotism on their front, and which will be so productive of every sort and degree of misery in their execution? For one, sir, I hesitate not to say that they cannot be executed. No law professedly passed for the purpose of compelling a service in the regular army, no any law which, under color of military draft, shall compel men to serve in the army, not for the emergencies mentioned in the Constitution, but for long periods, and for the general objects of war, can be carried into effect. In my opinion it ought to be carried into effect. The operation of measures thus unconstitutional and illegal ought to be prevented by a resort to other measures which are both constitutional and legal. It will be the solemn duty of the State governments to protect their own authority over their own militia, and to interpose between their citizens and arbitrary power. These are among the objects for which the State governments exist; and their highest obligations bind them to the preservation of their own rights and the liberties of their people. I express these sentiments here, sir because I shall express hem to my constituents. Both they and myself live under a constitution which teaches us that "the doctrine of nonresistance against arbitrary power and oppression is absurd, slavish, and destructive of the good and happiness of mankind." (New Hampshire Bill of Rights). With the same earnestness with which I now exhort you to forebear from these measures, I shall exhort them to exercise their unquestionable right of providing for the security of their own liberties.

In my opinion, sir, the sentiments of the free population of this country are greatly mistaken here. The nation is not yet in a temper to submit to conscription. The people have too fresh and strong a feeling of the blessings of civil liberty to be willing thus to surrender it. You may talk to them as much as you please, of the victory and glory to be obtained in the enemy’s provinces; they will hold those objects in light estimation if the means be a forced military service. You may sing to them the song of Canadian Conquest in all its variety, but they will not be charmed out of the remembrance of their substantial interests and true happiness. Similar pretences, they know, are the grave in which the liberties of other nations have been buried, and they will take warning.

Laws, sir, of this nature can create nothing but opposition. If you scatter them abroad, like the fabled serpents’ teeth, they will spring up into armed men. A military force cannot be raised in this manner, but by the means of a military force. If the Administration has found that it cannot form an army without conscription, it will find, if it ventures on these experiments, that it cannot enforce conscription without an army. The government was not constituted for such purposes. Framed in the spirit of liberty, and in the love of peace, it has no powers which render it able to enforce such laws. The attempt, if we rashly make it, will fail; and having already thrown away our peace, we may thereby throw away our government.

Allusions have been made sir, to the state of things in New England, and, as usual, she has been charged with an intention to dissolve the Union. The charge is unfounded. She is much too wise to entertain such purposes. She has had too much experience, and has too strong a recollection of the blessings which the Union is capable of producing under a just administration of government. It is her greatest fear, that the course at present pursued will destroy it, by destroying every principle, every interest, every sentiment, and every feeling which have hitherto contributed to uphold it. Those who cry out that the Union is in danger are themselves the authors of that danger. They put its existence to hazard by measures of violence, which it is not capable of enduring. They talk of dangerous designs against government, when the are overthrowing the fabric from its foundations. They alone, sir, are friends to the union of the States, who endeavor to maintain the principles of civil liberty in the country, and to preserve the spirit in which the Union was framed.

From: D. Webster, Writings and Speeches (Boston: Little, Brown, 1903), pp. 55-69.

[Sabertooth]

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[Sabertooth]

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[MeekOneGOP]

[WRhine]

Thanks for the ping Saber. It's going to take me a while to wade through the entirety of Webster's remarks. My quick take on the question of a mandatory draft is this: If our government can't protect our homeland from the mass invasion of illegal aliens on our southern border and, worse, wantonly allow entry to staggering numbers of 3rd world immigrants, many of them from the ME; then any kind of military draft is a complete sham. What are we asking our young men to defend? A welfare sanctuary "flop house" for the rest of the world? We send our guys to foreign hellholes to put their lives on the line while 3rd world opportunists feed off the fat of OUR LAND because our gutless politicians are bought and paid for? NO WAY Jose!

The day our so-called leaders put up their own kids for a draft as they hatch upon plans for new foreign entanglements is the day I'll reconsider my position.

[JaimeD2]

Don't sound off so completely on immigration. It's almost a certainty that the vast majority of Americans wouldn't be here had our country not been so open to it in the past; the promise of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness is a noble one, one to which people across the entire globe aspire, and naturally so. Separate legitimate immigration from illegitimate immigration. Yes, our country was founded by white Christian men, and that's an inextricable part of our history. But because someone is born into poverty and is neither white nor Christian doesn't mean that he can't respect the more central American ideals embodied in its Constitution or the Declaration of Independence, and it doesn't mean that he can't learn to love this country as his own.

[Little John]

I lifted this quote which was posted by Yehuda from another thread .....

War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feelings. which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse.

A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing is more important that his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men that himself.

- John Mills

My question is .... how can those who refuse to protect the country justify their continued unearned enjoyment of the freedom etc bought by others blood.

It is alright to be afraid but it is not to hide behind intricate but transparent rationalizations.

[Sabertooth]

It is alright to be afraid but it is not to hide behind intricate but transparent rationalizations.

Spare me.

If we need to raise an army, make the case and call for volunteers.

Don't pretend the Constitution says something it doesn't. That's the rationalization at work, all the way to the SCOTUS.

[WRhine]

Yes, our country was founded by white Christian men, and that's an inextricable part of our history. But because someone is born into poverty and is neither white nor Christian doesn't mean that he can't respect the more central American ideals embodied in its Constitution or the Declaration of Independence, and it doesn't mean that he can't learn to love this country as his own.

You have no idea what you are talking about. If you think that mass immigration from 3rd world nations, particularly Muslim nations, that have NO CONCEPT of democracy, rule of law, separation of church and state is a good thing for America you have no understanding of history or even current events IMO. It was only recently in America's history that our government foolishly agreed to 3rd world chain immigration. And the very predictable problems of social conflict and chaos from this misguided policy is just beginning to be felt.

In a few short decades, at our current rates of immigration, conservatism and any notion of an equitable rule of law in this country will be a distant memory. Enjoy whatever prosperity while it lasts because unless things change with our immigration policies a dark era for America is straight ahead. And yes, I really do believe that at this point in human history only the ethnic European Americans know how to run a healthy democracy. I don’t live in a politically correct, multicultural fantasyland of delusions like you.

[JaimeD2]

I live squarely in reality, thank you very much, and I speak squarely from experience. Most of my closest acquaintances are all first generation immigrants from Russia, Taiwan and mainland China (all Asian, and not ethnic Europeans, in case you haven't heard of the last two), and they have a better sense of what this country is about than a short-sighted, ignorant hothead like you. I never advocated mass immigration, though I wouldn't expect someone who insults without provocation to be such a careful reader; I advocated legitimate amounts of it. If you don't think that all men are created equal, and that they all aspire to common ideals of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, which you so obviously don't, then I want nothing more to do with you. Oh, and by the way, I suppose you should tell the President of your opinions of ethnic Europeans; he's mistakenly appointed a bunch of historically ethnic Africans to pretty high positions in the government. It's a shame that Jefferson's not alive, either, for you to be able to correct him.

You give conservativism a bad name.

[WRhine]

I live squarely in reality, thank you very much, and I speak squarely from experience. Most of my closest acquaintances are all first generation immigrants from Russia, Taiwan and mainland China (all Asian, and not ethnic Europeans, in case you haven't heard of the last two)

Well I guess that says a lot about you. Is your green card in status? Not that our INS cares all that much if it is not.

Anyway, perhaps you can explain your reasoning with associating our constitution which states that "all men are created equal" under the way OUR LAW APPLIES with the disparity of fortunes between the peoples of 3rd world nations and western civilization. I mean if all men are in the truest sense "equal" then shouldn't all nations and cultures be truly equal with no one better than the other? You made this connection, I'm just curious. And if you agree with the latter, why not live in say Saudi Arabia, Syria or Mexico? After all it's all just kind of an equal thing. Right?

[packrat01]

When it calls thus loudly for the treasure and lives of the people, what pledge does it offer that it will not waste all in the same preposterous pursuits which have hitherto engaged it? In the failure of all past promises, do we see any assurance of future performance?

no, we don't.

Nothing is talked of but banks, and a circulating paper medium, and exchequer notes, and the thousand other contrivances which ingenuity, vexed and goaded by the direst necessity, can devise, with the vain hope of giving value to mere paper.

the more things change, the more they stay the same.

Is this, sir, consistent with the character of a free government? Is this civil liberty? Is this the real character of our Constitution? No sire, indeed it is not. The Constitution is libeled. ... It is enough to know that that instrument was intended as the basis of a free government, and that the power contended for is incompatible with any notion of personal liberty.

slavery by any other name

The operation of measures thus unconstitutional and illegal ought to be prevented by a resort to other measures which are both constitutional and legal. It will be the solemn duty of the State governments to protect their own authority over their own militia, and to interpose between their citizens and arbitrary power.

like that would ever happen...

that said; America, love her or leave her.

[Atlas Sneezed]

Bang List?!

[harpseal]

When I was 17 turning 18 there was a draft for service in Vietnam. To avoid that draft I joined the Navy and served 18 months in Vietnam. I did not wish to serve with people who were not volunteers as I thought that might put my life more in jepordy than by serving with the best of the best. I do not believe in a draft unless the survival of the nation is at stake. That does not mean I do not believe in universal military training.

What we as a nation need is universal education in the art of being a soldier sailor airman or marine. Absolutely every physically and mentally capable person should have a basic knowledge of what it takes to be a member of the armed forces. Further, unless one is so profoundly physically or mentally handicapped one should have a basic proficiency in arms that is normally part of basic training. One should have an understanding of military discipline in order to have appropriate self discipline. By starting such training at say age 15 and keeping it up over two years the average 17 year old would have benefitted greatly and be better able to live a productive happy life. Military recruits who had already had this elementary training would then be a whole lot further along when they volunteer for the active or reserve armed forces. Further we would have a huge pool with which a militia could be filled should the need arise. It is my contention that the number of volunteers would rise with a greater knowledge of the option of being a member of the armed forces and a knowledge of what is required.

I do not even favor mandating such military education merely making it a precondition for recieving any federal assistance to anything or any employment by the federal government.

Thus we avoid a draft and involuntary service but we provide the opportunity to learn and benefit for the youth. Further, weas a nation benefit from the large number of militarily trained people.

Stay well - Stay safe - stay armed - Yorktown

[JaimeD2]

That's nice. If I believe that people across the world share fundamental dignities and deserve equality under law - if I believe that all men are created equal, with the key being on the word "created," coming straight out of the philosophies of Locke and Jefferson concerning equality of men at birth under the eyes of a omnipotent creator, equality as humans with certain common goals and yearnings - and if I dare associate with people who aren't "ethnic Europeans," then I must be an immigrant. Really classy. In fact, though it's irrelevant, I was born in Montgomery County, Maryland, and I've lived my entire life in states along the east coast. I've only left the country a total of four times, with three of those being into Canada and the other a cruise of the Carribean. Oh, I'm an ethnic European, too.

You know perfectly well that all men are not created into equal economic circumstances, and I'll take offense if you think I'm blind enough to not realize that. And I don't complain about that, because I believe in the progress and filters inherent to capitalist markets. But free markets only work when everybody is granted equality of opportunity, when all the best ideas and people are allowed to show themselves, and, besides, there's a strong moral basis for that sort of equality. If all men share fundamental human dignities, all men should be given a fair chance to demonstrate their worth and earn their way; those are the equalities to which I referred, not some trite, superficial equality of possessions. And I believe very strongly that our immigration policies should be set at the highest sustainable point, in which the most people that this country can absorb over an extended period are allowed to come here and share in the plenty that freedom and American tradition offer; but I believe equally strongly that citizenship should not be extended to those who do not come with a respect for those traditions and a desire to participate in our system of government. You're ignorant if you think that only ethnic Europeans are capable of that. All men are born with a desire for freedom, with a desire for those same three: life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. And many first generation immigrants from every continent, from Africa to Asia and South America, are some of the hardest working people in this country, and they have a great respect for what it's about.

Another thing. You should tell the people of Japan, South Korea, India, Costa Rica and Taiwan that they can't support democracies. Though it'll take a long time, what with there being billions of them. Your opinions are either innocently misguided or completely anachronistic, but either way they're wrong, borderline racist, hiding under the banner of "political reality," and do a world of harm to the conservative image.

[WRhine]

That's nice. If I believe that people across the world share fundamental dignities and deserve equality under law - if I believe that all men are created equal, with the key being on the word "created," coming straight out of the philosophies of Locke and Jefferson concerning equality of men at birth under the eyes of a omnipotent creator, equality as humans with certain common goals and yearnings - and if I dare associate with people who aren't "ethnic Europeans," then I must be an immigrant. Really classy.

True, that was a cheap shot on my part. Sorry. I did find it odd though that you went out of your way to note that ALL of your close “acquaintances” are 1st generation immigrants and made a point that none of your friends are American citizens…at least of European descent.

In fact, though it's irrelevant, I was born in Montgomery County, Maryland, and I've lived my entire life in states along the east coast. I've only left the country a total of four times, with three of those being into Canada and the other a cruise of the Carribean. Oh, I'm an ethnic European, too.

This actually may be more relevant than you think. You should get out more. You might be surprised at how the rest of the world lives. Sometimes you have to see things firsthand to get an appreciation for how well we live here in America.

You know perfectly well that all men are not created into equal economic circumstances, and I'll take offense if you think I'm blind enough to not realize that. And I don't complain about that, because I believe in the progress and filters inherent to capitalist markets. But free markets only work when everybody is granted equality of opportunity, when all the best ideas and people are allowed to show themselves, and, besides, there's a strong moral basis for that sort of equality. If all men share fundamental human dignities, all men should be given a fair chance to demonstrate their worth and earn their way; those are the equalities to which I referred, not some trite, superficial equality of possessions.

You really do have a flair for the dramatic. Again, you seem to be of the belief, if I have you right, that all people and cultures of this world are essentially equal and possess near identical values, which readily assimilate with ours. They don’t. Many if not most non-western cultures do not share our notions of liberty, free speech, free press, separation of church and state, rule of law and system of governance. To believe so is to be naïve. They may like our prosperity and job market but most have a vastly different set of values than we do (Asians for the most part are an exception here). That said, Sure, there are many hard working immigrants in this country and it is essential that we encourage “this kind” of immigration at a rate which allows for rapid assimilation--which is not the case today.

And I believe very strongly that our immigration policies should be set at the highest sustainable point, in which the most people that this country can absorb over an extended period are allowed to come here and share in the plenty that freedom and American tradition offer; but I believe equally strongly that citizenship should not be extended to those who do not come with a respect for those traditions and a desire to participate in our system of government.

Thanks for clearing that up. Normally when a poster comes barging into a conservation with lectures about how important immigration is to America, when the reality is that immigration in this country is totally out of control and a national security nightmare I make the assumption that the poster is advocating more of the same.

You're ignorant if you think that only ethnic Europeans are capable of that. All men are born with a desire for freedom, with a desire for those same three: life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. And many first generation immigrants from every continent, from Africa to Asia and South America, are some of the hardest working people in this country, and they have a great respect for what it's about.

Western Civilization did not rise by the process of osmosis. It arose because of its people. And it was the very customs, values, beliefs, traditions embedded in the people of the West that made America possible. Do you honestly believe that a country like America could have been created on its own in Asia or the Middle East? You can choose to deny this truth while wrapping yourself up in Political Correctness but the intrinsic nature of a people and culture have a direct bearing on how much prosperity and freedom they create for themselves.

In closing let me ask you this: If the entire citizenry of America picked up and moved to Australia while America's vast regions were repopulated with people from every country on earth except the "new" Australia and Europe, what nation do you think would emerge as the pre-eminent power in the world? Which country would you rather live in? And Why?

Have a Happy New Year.

[wku man]

"If we need to raise an army, make the case and call for volunteers."

What if they don't show up? From what I've been hearing, the military has had a helluva time trying to fill it's slots for the last few years, with only the Corps being successful. What happens when the youth of our nation becomes so selfish, so lazy, so cowardly, that they fail to heed the call?

Scouts Out! Cavalry Ho!

[Sabertooth]

What happens when the youth of our nation becomes so selfish, so lazy, so cowardly, that they fail to heed the call?

You've got the cart before the horse. Make the call first. Bush had a chance to do just that on 9/12, and chose otherwise.

Don't tell me now we need a draft. Our leaders need to make a case with clarity, and they will get volunteers if they succeed.

[packrat01]

Bang List?!

High percentage of volunteer as well as drafted Vets browse this forum. Which will be the Natural Right most fought for; life and liberty, or the means to retain them?

Which is the more dearly held?

My country right or wrong?

I'm trying to provoke thought, not an arguement.

[packrat01]

That would be great, hs...

I once made the comment that "only Vets should be allowed to vote"; and nearly got my throat ripped out.

Somebody ping Tonk, and other Vets, I can never spell his screen name.