[EBUCK]

but there is a lot to be said for gubment efforts to effect that end...

If I may clearify that statement...

but there is a lot to be said for gubment efforts to effect that end, that end being, misinformation, disarmament, and dependancy upon the state...

I, in no way, meant that as a positive remark about gubment efforts..

EBUCK

[elbucko]

I stand corrected.