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To: madg; lentulusgracchus; EdReform
Are you finally ready to acknowledge that you cannot demonstrate a universal diagnosis of pathology?

It's already been demonstrated. But I thought I might add the following — again, from Bell & Weinberg:

WHM = white homosexual male
BHM = black homosexual male
WHF = white homosexual female
BHF = black homosexual female

Number of Lifetime Sexual Partners (Table 7 p. 308):

WHM BHM WHF BHF
(N=574) (N=111) (N=227) (N=64)
1 0 0 3 5
2 0 0 9 5
3-4 1 2 15 14
5-9 2 4 31 30
10-14 3 5 16 9
15-24 3 6 10 16
25-49 8 6 8 11
50-99 9 18 5 8
100-249 15 15 1 2
250-499 17 11 1 2
500-999 15 14 0 0
1000+ 28 19 0 0

Proportion of Lifetime Sexual Partners Who Were Strangers (p. 308):

WHM BHM WHF BHF
(N=574) (N=111) (N=225) (N=64)
None 1 5 62 56
Half or less 20 43 32 38
More than half 79 51 6 6

Proportion of Lifetime Sexual Partners For Whom Respondent Had Some Affection (p. 309):

WHM BHM WHF BHF
(N=573) (N=111) (N=226) (N=64)
None 2 2 1 3
Half or less 71 66 18 36
More than half 27 32 81 61

Proportion of Lifetime Sexual Partners With Whom Respondent Had Sex Only Once (p. 309):

WHM BHM WHF BHF
(N=572) (N=111) (N=225) (N=64)
None 1 4 38 41
Half or less 29 59 51 55
More than half 70 38 12 5

Now let me put that into perspective. Of the white male homosexuals who responded to the survey, 91% had 25 or more lifetime sexual partners, 75% had 100 or more, and 28% had 1000 or more; 70% said that more than half of their sexual partners were one-night stands; 79% said that more than half of their sexual partners were complete strangers; and 73% said that they had some affection for less than half of their sexual partners.

The figures for black homosexual males weren't very different. By anyone's standards, that is extremely promiscuous behavior. It supports a universal diagnosis of pathology, at least among homosexual males.

Regarding your allegation that the Bell & Weinberg sample wasn't representative, you quoted from the book's introduction (p.22) — but just before the portion you quoted, Bell & Weinberg said the following concerning a comparison between work by Gebhard & Johnson, using the Kinsey data, and the work by Bell & Weinberg:

"Such comparisons allow the reader to determine how similar our respondents are to homosexuals investigated elsewhere and also to get some idea of what homosexual adults, at least those willing to be interviewed in studies of this kind, typically report about various features of their homosexuality." (p. 22.)

And after the portion you quoted came the following:

"Rather, what we want to demonstrate is the relationship between homosexuals sexual life-styles and their sociological and psychological adjustment."(p. 22.)

It's clear that the portion you quoted was chopped out of context in an effort to discredit Bell & Weinberg's very valuable research.

There is a substantial section devoted to an explanation of how Bell & Weinberg recruited their survey pool (pp 30-35). You claimed they only looked for survey respondents in gay bars and bathhouses. The overwhelming majority of their respondents were recruited from gay rights organizations and from gay mailing lists.

The large pool of potential respondents from each type of source (gay bar, gay rights organization, etc.) was then narrowed down by random selection to roughly one-third of its original number.

"In an attempt to obtain as much diversity as possible, we spent a great deal of time and expense in accumulating as many potential respondents as we could ... In the effort to minimize sample error, we hoped to recruit many more prospective respondents than we would interview ... and then to select our respondents on a random basis." (p.33.)

It appears to me that Bell & Weinberg went to great lengths to "minimize sample error" and that to a very great extent, those efforts were successful.


354 posted on 01/16/2003 11:29:59 PM PST by Bryan
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To: Bryan
Actually, I quoted from page 22.

There's no "discrediting" of Bell & Weinberg required. No matter how random the sample of respondents in 1970s San Francisco is, the fact remains that they are in 1970s San Francisco. Ignoring any changes in the activities of the homosexual population in the 20+ years of AIDS, the fact further remains that there is no statistician or researcher worth his salt that would claim that a single-city survey is in any way representative of anything other than that city. Bell & Weinberg acknowledged that, even if you don't.

356 posted on 01/17/2003 7:31:07 AM PST by JoshGray
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